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Alternative Beetle heating.

36K views 42 replies 23 participants last post by  iain ambrose 
#1 ·
So, when my engine was rebuilt earlier in the year, the heat exchangers were replaced and work nowhere near as well as the old ones did (just they don't poison me now:lol:)...

So, Im freezing most of the time and have a 300 mile round trip coming up in a couple of weeks....

I was thinking of a cheap 12v hair dryer behind the dash... home made bracket, switched on, some air hose from the drier to the dash vents (somehow split to all 3) and wire a switch in to the dash..... should also stop the fresh (ice cold) air from under the bonnet coming through the dash vents....

Anyone done it, or anything similar... or is there a better way of heating a bug....

Cheers

Steve.
 
#2 ·
The 12 V hairdryers don't work, neither do the super space age ceramic element car heater demister gadgets.
Even aftermarket Heat exchangers give enough heat to de-mist the screen, (mine even stop my toes from freezing), the trick is to get sufficient air flow through them. It's a long tortuous path from Heat Exchanger to windscreen in a beetle, and the smallest restriction along the way causes big reductions in the system's performance. If you have a howling gale conming thru the missing bonnet seal, it's not going to help either. Start with thet, then examine all the pipework from engine bay right through to the windscreen, and fix any bits which have collapsed internally. If the pipes in the sills and door pillars are completely blocked, a temporary flexible pipe from under the rear seat to under the driver's seat will keep toes from going black and dropping off.
 
#3 ·
Cheers dude, the heat used to come through the heater channel vents (footwells) fine... have only changed the heat exchangers... may just mask up the dash vents to stop the cold air floating through and see what that does..... my girlfriend has just reminded me that hairdryers have an auto cu off if they get too hot.... maybe it wasnt such a great idea :lol:

Ill check out the entire heating system when I get back tonight... I get no heat thru dash vents... think the hose in the door pilars needs replacing... probably full of crap :rolleyes:

And all the vents need fitting properly... and the hoses to the heater box need sealing at either end... will have a play ;)
 
#6 ·
..And check that your heater cables are adjusted to give max opening at the exchanger linkage
Ummm, yeah, about that... I dont have any cables :lol:

You may have a point there mate, I have just gotten under the back end, opened the lever on the heat exchanger and bent it over the back of the unit to 'lock' it open... on both.... there is still a cm or so travel to fully open, maybe thats cutting the amount of heat Im getting through... will get some cables at some point... never fitted them, I can drop an engine, replace a gearbox but get a bit apprehensive when it comes to fiddly bits in tight spaces :lol:

... And open a quarterlight
That's my current operation.... gets cold quick tho :rolleyes:
 
#5 ·
There are flaps on the heat exchangers aren't there, controlled by the levers by the handbrake.

On my Beetle we thought the heater channels were no good.
And as it got colder tried to find a method of heating, however meagre.
First we got some of that coiled aluminium pipe (3in Dia) and connected it from the heat exchanger on the left side into the rear of the car. We did this side because we thought this might be the better of the two channels. No heat came through . we then tried it on the drivers side. Initially no heat but realised the flaps were not open. Fortunately the flap was in working order including the control levers.
To make this better we purchased a legnth of pipe 3.5in diam and put this over the end of the heat exchanger and into the rear under the seat. Then a small piece of the 3in inside this and the over the heater channel end pipe. Success-heat from the front inlets. all the pipes are missing under the bonnet so some air is wasting through there.
Also, unfortunately the control wire from the left lever to the heat exchanger is kaput and the flap is spring loaded to stay closed??
 
#7 ·
Also, unfortunately the control wire from the left lever to the heat exchanger is kaput and the flap is spring loaded to stay closed??
ONe lever opens/closes both exchangers and the other opens/closes the rear (under seat) vents... cant; remember which one does which tho, and yes, they are spring loaded to stay closed :)
 
#8 ·
You could always fit an Auxillary heater - my '58 came from the factory fitted with an Eberspacher which I've just got working again - it pumps out loads of heat and is pretty much instant so no more freezing waiting for the engine to warm up - luckily my bug has really good heaters once the cars warm so I only need to use it for a bit (on those odd occasions I drive it in the winter), but it would make a good alternative also :)
 
#10 ·
Cheers guys,

A few ideas there...

Billybug.... how much to eberspachers cost :eek:

I would love an auxillary heater.... how do heaters in modern cars work... to they use engine heat, or can I just go to a breakers yard and pick up a fan with a heater filament that I can then just wire in under the bonnet??? Anyone know?
 
#14 ·
Modern heaters use the hot coolant flowing over the engine. You can't do that in a beetle.

Make sure the heater channels are in good nick and that all the seals and other gubbins are in place. The heating does work in Beetles, too well if the system is in good condition.
What he said its probably the best there is,

you never hear people with early porsche 911's or 912's complaining about their heating do ya ...no do you know why...they spend money on the proper genuine parts and repairs :incheek:

or you dont know anyone who owns one :lol:
 
#13 ·
al_kaholic said:
The heating does work in Beetles, too well if the system is in good condition.
*free bump for this thread*
I was getting a bit worried lately about the level of heat in my bug. As in fact, in the nice weather we've been having, even though the heating is not at all switched on, there is still warm air coming out the vents in the footwells.

I was guessing it's simply because it's taking in warm air and can't process it quickly enough. But my god the ole tootsies were warm last night when I got home :lol: and anyone in passenger seat for more than 20 minutes also thinks the same!
 
#15 ·
Also for best heating transfer use Genuine heatexchangers. I've had experiences with repop heaters and they are rubbish, genuine stuff has lots of big thick fins inside which are great for transferring heat. As everyone else has said, check for any restrictions in the system and air leaks. I heating system can be bloody amazing in Beetles when it's set up right!
 
#17 · (Edited)
I presume that you mean that the car has j-tubes instead?

Swap them for heat exchangers is the obvious answer.
 
#22 · (Edited)
You could, but there are two drawbacks.

In summer, when the oil gets really hot, you have to divert either the air or the oil. It can be done but it starts to get fiddly.

In winter, unless you have a long run to work on a fairly fast road, it can take a fair while to get the oil up to a decent temperature, so you will be cold for some time.

Dave.
 
#25 ·
:confused:

I will be running a 2175cc with about 160bhp and part of the package will be a dry sump system mounted up front. I am now settled on the idea that I will direct the oil return to the tank via a heater matrix in the cab. That oil will be running at 95*C or thereabouts so will be hotter than found in a watercooled car (~85*C) so the capacity should be adequate.

In a modern heater unit the heating matrix is in circuit all the time. gone are the days when you had to open the valve to let the water in;). The way the excess heat is dealt with is that there is no air flow over the matrix on summer settings. In my system in summer, the matrix cannot give its heat up for the same reason so that when the oil is still too hot it will divert through an ordinary cooler before it gets to the tank. I suspect I will have to play around with various oil viscosity grades as there may be a chance of overcooled oil.
 
#26 ·
Many years ago, I saw some plans for a Beetle heater system which had water filled heat exchangers, and an electric pump to circulate hot water to a conventional heater matrix and fan under the dash. It looked like it would work, but the plumbing seemed complicated, and it would probably not have been cheap.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Possibly one of mine ?

Several years ago a VZI poster (Can't remember who) put these photos out of a system he had built that he said worked well - the gubbins under the rear seat is a Golf heater matrix & blower unit, and the aluminium box in the rear luggage area is a home built expansion tank. I don't think he used a pump of any sort - thermal convection pushed the water around.







I had a think about doing something along those lines but was concerned that in summer or warmer days in winter that it would boil over if the fan was switched off, which is why I came up with the diagram below.

However I decided not to build it because - it makes a simple system complex, it adds a fair bit of weight, and cooling the exhaust gas at this point in the system is not the best idea if you are thinking about performance as well. Plus, nowadays, it appears that better quality heat exchangers are available once again (at a price) - which would pretty much negate building something like this anyway.

But for the curious -



For the pump, you have the choice of pulley driven small go-kart water pumps that could be engine driven, or 12V electric coolant pumps for motorbikes & race cars.

Dave.
 
#27 ·
All good tuning theory says keep the exhaust hot so that the gas speeds are maintained for good extraction. Taking the heat out of the manifold and disturbing the shape of the exhaust flow seems to be counter productive but for a standard car its not a bad compromise.

An aircooled car is not strictly a full aircooled motor as much of the cooling is done by the oil and that has to dump heat somehow, hence my proposal to dump it where its useful at times. Just because watercooled cars use the water to transfer heat to the heater matrix we don't have to follow suit as we can use the oil in a similar way.
 
#30 · (Edited)
But, for most folk who have a low speed round town commute, the car would take forever to get warm from the oil.

OK, if you're going to clock a few motorway or A road miles straight from the off then maybe worth considering. It wouldn't have been any good for me when I used to commute in my own car. By the time I got to work in winter my oil temp gauge still hadn't moved off the 50deg.C stop. (I have a works van now so it's not that much of a problem.)

For my bug, I am going to be re-inventing the old "stale air" system. (with a CO dectector in the car just in case I get a loose / blowing cyl head)

Dave.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I am the least air cooled savvy person on this forum,!!
i get mighty worried when i use the bug and its around rush hour.....it hasnt let me down but brain cant compute no radiator,no temp gauge, what is this trickery..!!!!
i was mulling over heater ideas as i was scrapping the ice off inside the windscreen day b4 yesterday,and id been out in car most of that day.
some good thoughts and ideas there,especially as thread was quiet for a while....
thanks for heads up on stuff....ive got to be trying something,if the fuel tank was moved,id have a open fire under the bonnet :).
my bugs a cold cold place....

a duvet or blankets !!
 
#33 ·
The best way to destroy the heating in a beetle is to fit cheap crappy heater channels that don't have the correct internal ducting.
 
#35 ·
If you have a standard engine or at the most a tuned engine with standard sized valves then your easiest, simplest, and probably in the long run, cheapest way to get decent heating is with the best quality heat exchangers.

If your heater channels leak air then just direct it all out of the vents under the back seat instead.

Running stock diameter heat exchangers on an engine with larger than stock valves can lead to overheating on that cylinder (According to John Maher IIRC), if you have a big motor and you want heating then you need to get creative.

If you will get enough heat from your oil to be useful on the coldest days then that's one way. Another way is an Eberspacher or Propex heater.

The route I'm taking is simply grabbing some of the bucketfulls of hot air that get blasted out from under the cylinder heads anyway, and ducting it back into the car the way VW and Porsche used to do it.

Dave.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Round drilled holes in solid metal are OK.

Rusty flaky stuff - carve it out, weld in new steel, paint it. If you can't paint the inside, waxoyl (or dinitrol) it.

MOT inspectors do not like bran flakes.

Cost out paying somebody else to repair it vs. buying your own welder, learning a new skill, and fixing it yourself.
Factor in the cost of the equipment, consumables, messing up on one on two practice pieces, then self satisfaction on a job well done & money saved.

Also weigh in the fact that as long as you own an old car, whatever make, you really need to be able to service it and repair it yourself, otherwise you will always be paying out for expensive rust repairs. Old motors need a lot of welding. It is a skill well worth learning. ;) Trust me on this.

Dave.
 
#43 ·
Some models of Subaru run coolant through a block that the oil filter mounts too but with them it's to help get the oil up to temperature quicker rather than cooling it down.
VW did the same for many of their vehicles.


If you wanted to use oil as a method of heating the car then you could mod the engine for full flow and then in addition to a filter add a cooler with an inline thermostat.
The Oil cooler could be mounted in the car with a fan setup, perhaps under the rear seat.
Using a thermostat will stop the car heating from robbing too much temperature from the oil.
The stock oil cooler is further along the oil route so it should not impact on the system.
 
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