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Bike engine in a Beetle

68K views 59 replies 32 participants last post by  vwalan 
#1 ·
Was thinking of putting a Hayabusa/Blackbird/any powerful bike engine in a beetle, has anyone here ever done it before. I know the idea could get some purists twitching their moustaches but I reckon it could be fun.


Thanks
 
#2 ·
A buggy passed me coming back from Spa Bug Show a few years ago. The screaming engine revs caught my attention, and it appeared to have some kind of inline 4 bike engine in it. I recently passed a very nice looking red VW chassis based trike on the M6 which was powered by what looked (and sounded) to me like a Harley V twin on a VW 'box.

I don't know of anyone out there who has done such a conversion, but trike web forums and Aussie Vee Dubbers would probably be good places to start.

Richard Jones,
R J Engineered Solutions,
Quality Subaru Powered VW Components
www.rjes.com
 
#4 · (Edited)
There was a buggy at one of the shows this year (in a barn display) but can't remember which show it was, that seemed to be running a honda in line four lump straped to a VW box.

Looked like fun in a light weight buggy :D

Oh and it had a sticker on it's screen saying that it had "24 gears" (4 in the dub box X 6 in the bike box )
 
#6 ·
I was thinking of linking the engine to the beetle gear box using a drive shaft from a FWD car.
A 1300cc Hayabusa engine will be running about 150hp stock which can be multiplied a few times with a bit of expensive tinkering. But i'd say the weight of the car would be a killer.
 
#7 ·
Busa engines make that power high up in the revs.

To get there you need the turning force (torque) low down..

Bike engines tend to be low torque/high bhp so are only really suited to lightweight specials, kits, buggies and rails, where you don't need the initial "kick" to get things moving.
 
#9 ·
Your best bet would be a mid engined 1.8T from a passat/A4 shell as all the gearbox and stuff would sit correctly ( imagine a boxter setup/layout ) and very tunable ;) OR a little more cash and go for the longitudinal `NOT` transverse V6 from the same ( charged/turbo ) or Audi V8 ??

I believe all these are compatible with the passat/boxter box ?

The 1.8T would be cheapest as bike engines get a little pricey when you start tuning after the initial outlay :)


:cool:
 
#12 ·
Id love a bike engined beetle on a tube chassis. I was at GTI international in the summer and there was a twin hayabusa engined polo there; see link below



It was incredible. The vid doesn't do it justice. At one point they raced it down the start finish straight against two 1000+hp skylines and it literally obliterated them.

Got loads of pictures of the engineering on the car. Huge amount of work. Obviously not road legal, but a serious piece of kit none the less!!
 
#13 · (Edited)
i would use an R1 or hayabusa engine with a Quaife drive box and diff or there chain driven axel unit in a custom mounting. This would be an intresting project as you would loose weight from the car and have a 6 speed sequential gearbox and cooling would not be a big issue like on the scooby engines due to the space you would have at the rear of the car. Also if you are still wanting more power you can always turbo the engines..........

But this has now got me thinking??????
 
#15 ·
Scoobying a bug isn't really that hard and it's possible with a relativly stock engine to get down into the 11's.

masitaly sums it up perfectly when he says "Huge amount of work. Obviously not road legal, but a serious piece of kit none the less!!"

ip Racing, I'd like to see it done.. if you do it the scene will be a richer place, but you'll be a poorer man :D.

If you rekon you're up to it, prove me wrong :)

freakybug, I've seen that, for the money I'd still rather drop an Rotary Mazda or a Subaru engine in there
 
#17 ·
ip Racing, I'd like to see it done.. if you do it the scene will be a richer place, but you'll be a poorer man :D.

If you rekon you're up to it, prove me wrong :)

freakybug, I've seen that, for the money I'd still rather drop an Rotary Mazda or a Subaru engine in there
I am having a serious think about it as it could be made road legal too. But not sure what to put it in. Type 3 would be nice but may just go for a bug.

Doing a split screen with a scooby turbo engine at the moment but trying to make it look as factory possible as i hate the look of big rubber hoses etc... that you know where not meant to be used.
I have moded so many parts from cooling pipes to the mainifolds and turbo set up to do this. But it will all be worth it when it is done, just shame it is not mine:(
 
#21 ·
Wedgedout nice chatting to you today,
The reduction box is the only real way to do a road car so it is really driveable but saying that there are alot of cars running the chain driven diff system but this also has a slight reduction built in to it also.
 
#22 ·
Don't forget the tiny bike clutch too. I think I'm right to say that they struggle to get the clutches to last in bike powered Westfields, etc, so it'd be a much bigger problam in anything heavier.
 
#25 ·
theres a company i think called tiger who do a twin bike engine
lotus 7 replica
you can drive on either one or have two driving at the same time
the guy at a kit car show had two hyabusa engines in his
his next step was to put 2 turbo hyabusa engines in also

there was a guy building minis powered by bike engines
where the back seat goes
you have to buy a piece of kit to give u reverse
have a look at the kit car mags
 
#26 ·
Im sure that with a tube frame and fibre glass/race weight panels you would get the weight down considerably on a bug so it would not be an issue.

I have seen a mini done, and a friend of mine who does hill climbing with bike engines in very light cars was considering doing a bug. Twin engine and chain driven.

I know wizard used to offer fibre glass bodies, and im sure i have seen a company still doing so on the web some where.

Griff
 
#27 ·
Im sure that with a tube frame and fibre glass/race weight panels you would get the weight down considerably on a bug so it would not be an issue.

I have seen a mini done, and a friend of mine who does hill climbing with bike engines in very light cars was considering doing a bug. Twin engine and chain driven.

I know wizard used to offer fibre glass bodies, and im sure i have seen a company still doing so on the web some where.

Griff
www.ezbug.co.uk
:)
 
#28 ·
perhaps not quite the same breed of bike engine you are talking about here but a chap called today with a honda goldwing. I saw the heads poking out the sides and instantly wondered if anyone's put one in a beetle? not the most powerful or readily available, but looked pretty compact and must be a shit load more torquey than a race bike having to lug a leviathan of a machine about!
 
#29 ·
old honda goldwings are flat 4 engines like beetle engines, the biggest problem your going to suffer using a bike engine is the lack of reverse! now with the older hondas they didnt have a reverse, goldwings of recent years have got much bigger and may infact have a reverse of some sort, the newer honda goldwing comes in i think its 1500 flat 4 and 1800 flat 6(or they might be both flat six) the gearboxes are shaft drive so all you`d need is a cradle for the engine and a diff inplace of the beetles gearbox although you`d have to do some diff work otherwise you`d end up with 5/6 reverse gears!

something which is still a bike engine is Harley Davidson.

theres a company I think down in devon which make trikes with harley engines, the interesting bit is that the harley engine is bolted to a VW gearbox with an adaptor, stock harley engines come in 1340/1450 biggest(both have a different adaptor) and you can get get a kit to make the harley engine 2.1litre, thats a big twin!

the only problem you`d have with more conventional bike engines is because they dont have a flywheel you really need to get the revs up to do anything.

Id certainly look outside the stock inline 4 jap bike box as there is other varieties that could prove interesting conversions.
 
#30 ·
this was a flat 6, pretty new and he said a 1500. it had an electric reverse. I just thought it looked a similar size and shape to the standard boxer4, and that it probably wouldn't use a massive radiator.

I'm not going to be doing one myself, dont have the time, skill or money. I was just wondering if it had been done/considered.

surely a heavier bike engine like that would work ok with a flywheel and could be adapted straight to a standard box? or would the ratios be miles out?
 
#32 ·
Ive been pondering on bike engines for a while. There are far more options than just inline jap 4 bangers. you could go flat twin, four or six. I was thinking about the aftermarket harley lumps, you can get a 127 ci engine that puts out 145 hp and 140 ftlbs torque. I dont know how that stacks up against vw motors, more horses and im guessing more torque. Less longevity and reliability though I guess. And one costs as much as a well put together vw engine, but you can get a ready made kit to bolt it onto your vw box from people like boom or rewaco who make trikes.
 
#33 ·
I passed one of those Harley powered trikes on the M6 a few months ago. I followed it for quite a while trying to see how it was done. It did appear to be a V twin on a Beetle box, and also appeared to be very well built. It sounded awesome too.
 
#34 ·
Ealier in thethread somebody mentioned zcars near Hull.

I bought a 1776 motor off them that they had taken out of a Chesil and replaced with the Hayabusa engine. Unfortunately the guy wrote it off on the way back from Le Mans within a couple of weeks.

Went out for a spin in one of their specialities - a Hayabusa engined Mini - absolute flying machine!

They were also putting a Skyline engine in a TVR Cerbera whilst I was there.

Well worth having a look.

Ebeneezer
 
#36 ·
Baffling, no not BAFFLING, BAFFLING!

The major issue with bike engines in cars is lack of torque at low revs, my 1150 bmw rockster develops 92bhp at the wheel, after tweeks, and my 1100 guzzi cally motor gives 80bhp. I have many fours but dont think any of them would be any good in a car, twins would be best. The other, major issue is oil starvation, with racing sidecar engines the sump has the problem where when cornering the oil slops to one side of the sump, bikes lean and so the centrifugal force pushes the oil downward not sideways when cornering. With sidecar outfits the sump needs to be BAFFLED by putting plates with holes in lengthways along the sump to reduce the effect of the oil slopping away from the pick up. I have a zzr1100 with leading link forks and a modern two seater chair on it, I use that to ferry my three year old about so heavy handed cornering is less of a problem. I have seen 120 on the motorway though, Without my son of course, as thats when I bottled it. 160 when she was solo was easy.
She may soon be for sale to fund a t25 camper. These vws are taking over slowly. :confused:
 
#37 ·
The major issue with bike engines in cars is lack of torque at low revs, my 1150 bmw rockster develops 92bhp at the wheel, after tweeks, and my 1100 guzzi cally motor gives 80bhp. I have many fours but dont think any of them would be any good in a car, twins would be best. The other, major issue is oil starvation, with racing sidecar engines the sump has the problem where when cornering the oil slops to one side of the sump, bikes lean and so the centrifugal force pushes the oil downward not sideways when cornering. With sidecar outfits the sump needs to be BAFFLED by putting plates with holes in lengthways along the sump to reduce the effect of the oil slopping away from the pick up. I have a zzr1100 with leading link forks and a modern two seater chair on it, I use that to ferry my three year old about so heavy handed cornering is less of a problem. I have seen 120 on the motorway though, Without my son of course, as thats when I bottled it. 160 when she was solo was easy.
She may soon be for sale to fund a t25 camper. These vws are taking over slowly. :confused:
Some bike engines are more suitable in cars than others for the reasons stated above. Generally, the longatudial engines such as those found on boxter BMWs and Honda Goldwings are better suited because the crank runs in the same direction as a bug and oil starvation is less of an issue under acceleration and braking. If you have to rotate an engine, that's where the problems start.

This has a BMW bike engine in it:

And I always wondered what it would look like with a Beetle body over it... That would be mad! A 3-wheeled Beetle streamliner!
 
#38 ·
The guys at Radical sports cars Peterborough use dry sump systems on their bike powered cars.
They also developed a V8 bike engine a few years back,,,, think it was for a Le Mans car,, my buddy who works for them said it was based on two Suzuki engines,, I know they put out over 350bhp & sound awsome.

Almost everything is done in house at their Peterborough factory, even the rolling road to set em up.

Good guys to contact maybe ;)
 
#39 ·
The guys at Radical sports cars Peterborough use dry sump systems on their bike powered cars.
They also developed a V8 bike engine a few years back,,,, think it was for a Le Mans car,, my buddy who works for them said it was based on two Suzuki engines,, I know they put out over 350bhp & sound awsome.

Almost everything is done in house at their Peterborough factory, even the rolling road to set em up.

Good guys to contact maybe ;)
Local to me too :), thanks for the tip off :)
 
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