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Old 03-04-2009, 10:11 PM   #11
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I remember Peter harold's rally cross bug.
4wd 16v (?) scooby heads and turbo reported to have been 500-550bhp
Volksworld and Safer motoring did a feature back in the day

I have often thought about this car and wondered what happened to it..
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 63ragtop View Post
But I not sure why anyone would want to do such a mod,
Maybe to gain more cu.ft/min than the best aftermarket heads can provide AND do so while maintaining proper airspeed and hence swirl at lower rpms?
Quote:
Its not really a T1 engine if you stick overhead cams on it???
Old discussion, but it is still a T1 engine if you stick Autocraft, Pauter or CE heads on them? and use an Autolinea alu case as a base etc etc
IMHO, the base case design makes/dictates the engine possibilities and type.

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Next they will be water cooling them too..etc... Isn't that just what a Subaru?? Just my opinion
Now, THAT would be a shame (sorry Martin Tayler, Russ Fellows )

BTT: here is a real 911-heads OHC type 1 being developed (germany) by one of the guys that run the 'Boxergasse' cup:
http://www.boxergasse.com/html/stefa...tschinger.html
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:56 AM   #13
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I guess it depends at what point you feel a Type 1 is nolonger a Type 1. I believe that fitting overhead cams is one step to far. Hats off to anyone who can do it and make it work, but its not for me. And like John Maher says... it is just as, if not more challenging to make power using the conventional Type 1 format.

A few years ago I read about a company who were making 4 cylinder 911 engine.(I had a quick look on the net and cant find it now) Does that make it a Type 1...not really? Just like a Type 1 with porsche heads and overhead cams isn't realy a Type 1 anymore?

Using after market casings and heads doesn't really deviate far from the conventional format of a Type 1.

Just my opinion
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:38 PM   #14
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From what I can see if you have a flat four engine then it's a VW
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:57 PM   #15
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Overhead cam on a flat 4 VW, might as well shove in a Scooby engine, and that ain't no VW. Definitely one step too far!
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:02 PM   #16
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you're mostly missing the point, you go racing to beat the opposition, to do that you exploit the boundaries of 'THE REGULATIONS' of whatever class structure your participating in. peters beetle was in against the best
engineers, let alone drivers, in his chosen discipline, and i mean world class, and he'd reached the end of reliable development of the aircooled motors, and you cant "just bolt in a Porsche or Subaru engine", again, 'REGULATIONS' say, in short, o/e block.. no T4, no scats, no wbx, it was pure T1, the loophole was they forgot to tie down the top end,
so Porsche heads appeared on T1 blocks in '84, wbx appeared in '86, all giving some 400 reliable hp, and there's the key word, reliable, all the 'racing heads' are useless at these figures for racing even today , then there were scat split ports or
highly modified t/p heads, all unreliable in low grip, high revs disciplines, then you needed to bolt on a turbo to stay with the xtracs and Quattros, no brainer.
there you have it really, different agenda. all the drag race stuff is for drag racing, it wont pass muster for 80 mins of circuit racing, the average double header meeting, two qualies and two races, and even the rallycross motors only run for about 30 mins. so, to live , and run at the front in a v.w, something a LOT better than anything available today means clever thinking 'out the box' ,so thanks to guys like Trevor chinn, peters engineer , and Geoff thomas at autocavan , beetles slayed giants. were improving, cnc 044s are a big step, but i'll bust 'em, they don't like 10 plus to 1 c/r big cc and high revs for what i want to do to with them, but there o.k for 10secs, or go slow and win nothing...nahh.
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Old 13-05-2009, 06:31 AM   #17
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I seem to remember the last one to have porsche aircooled heads on a type1 was russ fellows b4 he got martin taylors autocraft engine... I thought he did that to stay aircooled and not get tempted by the dark side.
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Old 13-05-2009, 09:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spannermanager View Post
you're mostly missing the point, you go racing to beat the opposition, to do that you exploit the boundaries of 'THE REGULATIONS' of whatever class structure your participating in. peters beetle was in against the best
engineers, let alone drivers, in his chosen discipline, and i mean world class, and he'd reached the end of reliable development of the aircooled motors, and you cant "just bolt in a Porsche or Subaru engine", again, 'REGULATIONS' say, in short, o/e block.. no T4, no scats, no wbx, it was pure T1, the loophole was they forgot to tie down the top end,
so Porsche heads appeared on T1 blocks in '84, wbx appeared in '86, all giving some 400 reliable hp, and there's the key word, reliable, all the 'racing heads' are useless at these figures for racing even today , then there were scat split ports or
highly modified t/p heads, all unreliable in low grip, high revs disciplines, then you needed to bolt on a turbo to stay with the xtracs and Quattros, no brainer.
there you have it really, different agenda. all the drag race stuff is for drag racing, it wont pass muster for 80 mins of circuit racing, the average double header meeting, two qualies and two races, and even the rallycross motors only run for about 30 mins. so, to live , and run at the front in a v.w, something a LOT better than anything available today means clever thinking 'out the box' ,so thanks to guys like Trevor chinn, peters engineer , and Geoff thomas at autocavan , beetles slayed giants. were improving, cnc 044s are a big step, but i'll bust 'em, they don't like 10 plus to 1 c/r big cc and high revs for what i want to do to with them, but there o.k for 10secs, or go slow and win nothing...nahh.
Good post. I think you grasped it pretty well there

It is indeed 10x more difficult to build an engine that survives track duty (or even worse: highspeed autobahn driving) than to make a fast drag engine all because of the cooling requirements.
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Old 13-05-2009, 09:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spannermanager View Post
you're mostly missing the point, you go racing to beat the opposition, to do that you exploit the boundaries of 'THE REGULATIONS' of whatever class structure your participating in. peters beetle was in against the best
engineers, let alone drivers, in his chosen discipline, and i mean world class, and he'd reached the end of reliable development of the aircooled motors, and you cant "just bolt in a Porsche or Subaru engine", again, 'REGULATIONS' say, in short, o/e block.. no T4, no scats, no wbx, it was pure T1, the loophole was they forgot to tie down the top end,
so Porsche heads appeared on T1 blocks in '84, wbx appeared in '86, all giving some 400 reliable hp, and there's the key word, reliable, all the 'racing heads' are useless at these figures for racing even today , then there were scat split ports or
highly modified t/p heads, all unreliable in low grip, high revs disciplines, then you needed to bolt on a turbo to stay with the xtracs and Quattros, no brainer.
there you have it really, different agenda. all the drag race stuff is for drag racing, it wont pass muster for 80 mins of circuit racing, the average double header meeting, two qualies and two races, and even the rallycross motors only run for about 30 mins. so, to live , and run at the front in a v.w, something a LOT better than anything available today means clever thinking 'out the box' ,so thanks to guys like Trevor chinn, peters engineer , and Geoff thomas at autocavan , beetles slayed giants. were improving, cnc 044s are a big step, but i'll bust 'em, they don't like 10 plus to 1 c/r big cc and high revs for what i want to do to with them, but there o.k for 10secs, or go slow and win nothing...nahh.
main reason i went t4 power in my hill climb car and no doubt why porsche went to t4 engine when there went rallycrossing in the early 70's with a 1303.
making a engine last for 10 seconds is a lot differant to making one last for 60 seconds[what i need] and making one last for a 30 minute race or 100 mile rally.
differant power needed for each diseplin as well.
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Old 13-05-2009, 10:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I seem to remember the last one to have porsche aircooled heads on a type1 was russ fellows b4 he got martin taylors autocraft engine... I thought he did that to stay aircooled and not get tempted by the dark side.
That was a typ4 engine.
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