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Old 21-07-2010, 12:42 AM   #1
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Default Brake pipe flaring help/ info?

Getting to the point where I was gonna do the brake lines on the car, and as I'm putting a line lock in I was gonna make all the brake lines from scratch.

However, although I got a flaring kit (a cheapy clarkes one from machine mart), I've realised it a imperial type one, and it only does either double flare, or the roundy type flare (i.e. the first step of the double flaring process).

Is the round type flare ok to use, as I know VW use a bubble flare, which is very similar to this, but has a flat back where the fitting sits against?

If not, where the hell can I get a bubble flaring type kit from, as I cant find one anywhere!

Cheers in advance.

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Old 21-07-2010, 12:47 AM   #2
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Old 21-07-2010, 01:09 AM   #3
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Cheers Joebo,

I've actually just been reading this!

From what i can work out, the standard 'bubble' flare is as Cleggyspider drew here on the left (note flat back).



However, standard kits tend to produce a single flare as shown in figure 2 here (45 degree back)



From what others have said on that thread, this single flare seems to be ok to be used as a replication of the bubble flare, but I just dont want any risk of leaks!

However, I can find anywhere in the UK that sells bubble flare kits!

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Old 21-07-2010, 12:27 PM   #4
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I've never seen them either. All the professional flares are as your diagram. I shouldn't worry as the kunifer or copper pipe is quite malleable and any reasonable flare will probably conform to the steel seat that its being tightened into.
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Old 21-07-2010, 01:22 PM   #5
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i made up my own brake pipes when i fitted my remote servo also - was quite nervous about it but in the end it was dead easy.
i also bought a cheapo flaring kit, a silverline jobbie from ebay, and this made the job much more difficult.
Halfway through i abandoned it and bought a sealey one for about 30. this made the job so much easier, a perfect flare every time whereas the cheapo one gave me a useable flare about one in 5.

you will need a double flares really, best not to risk leaks that may happen with single flares.
also, as mentioned above, make sure you use the kuniper lines as theyre more flexible and last longer than steel.

Heres where i bought my flaring kit from - http://www.tools4trade.com/d-4503144...it-AK5063.aspx

hope this helps.

Last edited by ferkh10; 21-07-2010 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 21-07-2010, 01:35 PM   #6
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Cheers for the advice all.

I think it pretty obvious i need to get rid of my cheapy tool and get a pro one.

I have ordered the kunifer line already so that sorted.

ferkh10, can i just completly clarify. You'd recomend using a double flare, as in figure 3 above, rather than the single flare (figure 2), even though dimensions wise very different from the original?

My mate has just done some brake lines, and he said that he used the double flare, and once fitted and tightened down, it took on the shape of the original anyway.

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Old 21-07-2010, 01:50 PM   #7
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no worries. you will do the job with the cheapo kit, but it will take you 5 times longer and you will swear a lot

i did the brakes on my split bus, so im not 100% sure if the same principle applies if your vehicle is different, but i dont see why not if its an aircooled VW.
i flared the end as appears in the left side of the diagram above, a double flare with a mushroom head. this way, a small hole appears in the head of the mushroom for the fluid to pass through and the mushroom will fit really snug into the union. think the problem with the flare on the right is that if its not 100% round there is a possibility that fluid could leak through the union - this isnt that possible with kuniper though as when its all tightened up it will bend perfectly into the union anyway.

the flaring kit i bought contains a fitting that produces the mushroom head, as in Fig 2 above. thats what i used.

Last edited by ferkh10; 21-07-2010 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 21-07-2010, 02:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferkh10 View Post
no worries. you will do the job with the cheapo kit, but it will take you 5 times longer and you will swear a lot

i did the brakes on my split bus, so im not 100% sure if the same principle applies if your vehicle is different, but i dont see why not if its an aircooled VW.
i flared the end as appears in the left side of the diagram above, a double flare with a mushroom head. this way, a small hole appears in the head of the mushroom for the fluid to pass through and the mushroom will fit really snug into the union. think the problem with the flare on the right is that if its not 100% round there is a possibility that fluid could leak through the union - this isnt that possible with kuniper though as when its all tightened up it will bend perfectly into the union anyway.

the flaring kit i bought contains a fitting that produces the mushroom head, as in Fig 2 above. thats what i used.
I think all VW generally use the same flares.

Ah i think i finally get it.

So just to carify, i drawn a diagram! (N.B, goes a bit funny if its not shown full size!)



Standard VW fitting seems to be the 'bubble' type, as on the left of my diagram. However most common kits produce a single flare, as in the middle, which your saying works fine. However, your reckon not the double flare (on the right) as this is at risk of not sealing well.

Sorry to keep asking, just wanna make sure i get it right 1st time!!

Dude
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Last edited by Deanodynosaurs; 21-07-2010 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Redrawn a flare!
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Old 21-07-2010, 02:21 PM   #9
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sorry, im getting really mixed up here, the double flare on the right is correct one.

to be honest i think double flare and mushroom flare are the same thing. Looking at "double flare" in the pic above the flaring kit will produce this kind of double flare, but it will also flatten down the base and push the sides in at the same time to produce a mushroom look. So, a good flaring kit will produce something described as a double flare, but looks like the mushroom flare on the left.

hope that makes sense!!

Last edited by ferkh10; 21-07-2010 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 21-07-2010, 03:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanodynosaurs View Post
I think all VW generally use the same flares.

Ah i think i finally get it.

So just to carify, i drawn a diagram! (N.B, goes a bit funny if its not shown full size!)



Standard VW fitting seems to be the 'bubble' type, as on the left of my diagram. However most common kits produce a single flare, as in the middle, which your saying works fine. However, your reckon not the double flare (on the right) as this is at risk of not sealing well.

Sorry to keep asking, just wanna make sure i get it right 1st time!!

Dude
The left one and the centre one are in essence the same. These fit a concave seat.
The right one fits a convex seat.
You should be able to see which one you need when looking into the fitting that you are mating to.
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