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Old 25-11-2019, 06:39 PM   #21
Mooresy
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Thanks Phil,
So the coil had a little fold down door to get at the concealed terminals. Using the 3 pin connector at the top gives a different (and out of spec) reading. Must be some additional circuitry between these terminals and the coil.

So I have ran the tests -

Bridging pos to neg = 0.07 Ohms - In spec (VW state 0.5 to 1.5 Ohms)

Bridging pos to HT Output = 3.08k Ohms - In spec (VW State 2.5 to 4.0 K Ohms)


So the coil is appears good and the ignition leads are reasonably good.


I just need to check the outputs to the coil on the car when its light.

So here's where I am now -

Halls sensor in Dizzy, I believe if these fail then you get no spark, so cant be this?

Knock Sensor, everything I read says this wont stop the car from starting?

ECU Corrupted/problem, timing?

Spark Plugs, all of them failed at once?

Timing jumped, if so why did it run for a period of time after being sprayed with WD

Loose wire, fuse rely, why does it try to start and fire on one or two?
Fuel injection, plugs wet fuel getting in, but when. Fuel pressure, if this was defective wold it register on scanner, and still let fuel trough to cylinders?

Coil defective, and failing under load/spark under compression not enough, thought this was more of a misfire issue under acceleration?



One observation I made yesterday was when cleaning and drying out the plugs, I decided to check the gaps. Looked in the Haynes and it said 1.0 gap. All were tight, so opened up and gapped at 1.0 mm

Put back in the car dry and warm - nothing, not even trying now.



Cross referenced the gap setting on the other sources which recommended 0.9mm which is probably where they were. Now this may be a coincidence but opening the the gap by 0.1mm changed the status from trying to not firing at-all. So could the coil be still suspect as I cannot see a healthy ignition system being bothered by 0.1 mm, but I suppose that its not healthy.



Building a great thread here for the AER 1.0 engine, lets just hope it ends well!

Last edited by Mooresy; 25-11-2019 at 06:43 PM..
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:37 PM   #22
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Had another look at this today -
Unfortunately, it started to get dark at about 15.30 so had to pack away without actually trying to start the thing.

Removed ECU, cleaned the connector with electrical cleaning spray.
Opened the ECU and checked for any visible deterioration, water ingress etc. Fine so spayed with electrical cleaner.

Broke all the connections I could find, spayed with electrical cleaner and remade.

Removed the spark plugs again, checked for resistance, continuity, shorting etc, all ok

1 = 4.91k ohms
2 = 4.22k ohms
3 = 4.21k ohms
4 = 4.22k ohms
Should be between 4 and 6.5 depending on resistor so all good and no shorts.

Removed all earth points to engine and body cleaned/sanded and reattached.

Checked the timing by removing all the plugs (already out) removing the Dizzy cap (already off) jacking up one front wheel (other still on the ground), putting in 4th gear and turning the wheel until the screwdriver placed through the spark plug hole had risen to its highest point. Checked the direction of the dizzy rotor and this was bang on the mark on the casing for TDC cylinder No 1.
So no issues with the timing.

So here's the latest list -

New Battery (Varta) all fine here.
New fuel and fuel filter, tank pump working.
New distributor cap, all checked and measured to ensure center pick-up was in contact with rotor (found original to be cracked), also all leads on correct terminals (firing order).
Connection from cap to plug leads checked with multi-meter.
HT Leads all tested with timing strobe, also out of cylinder head with plugs producing a blue spark, and with multi-meter while flexing leads. All fine here.
All pugs checked with multi-meter and correctly gapped at 1.0mm.
Coil checked, LT and HT sides all in spec (also plugs firing).
Timing checked. all good.
No pipes off or split.
All electrical connections taken apart, cleaned with connector cleaning spray.
All engine earth points cleaned and reconnected.
Scan using a Snap-on Solus Ultra - no fault codes now showing.
Throttle body adapted.
ECU removed and checked for water ingress etc(all good), connector blocks cleaned with electrical cleaning spray.

Still wont start, fires and tries.

Further things for consideration -

Dizzy Halls sensor, told if this is bad then you dont get a spark?
Knock sensor. told cant be this?
Lamda/O2 Sensor, can this cause a car not to start?
Crank sensor, can this cause a car not to start?
EGR Valve, can this cause a car not to start?
Relays?
Corrupted Knackered ECU, Fuel is getting to all cylinders.
All injectors?
Fuel pressure regulator?

Any suggestions on which order to tackle these ?

Regards,
Chris.


Thanks,
Chris.

Last edited by Mooresy; 03-12-2019 at 09:33 PM.. Reason: =
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:03 PM   #23
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Looks like the 1.0 MPi AER engine does not have a crank sensor as previously mentioned, so that rules that one out and explains why nothing was showing on the wiring diagram. At least I dont have to do that job as it looked a real B'stard. Attached some images from the Motronic 9.0 training manual

So Back to the list, that one can be crossed off.

Dizzy Halls sensor, told if this is bad then you dont get a spark?
Knock sensor. told cant be this?
Lamda/O2 Sensor, can this cause a car not to start?
EGR Valve, can this cause a car not to start?
Relays?
Corrupted Knackered ECU, Fuel is getting to all cylinders.
All injectors, but fuel is getting through?
Fuel pressure regulator, fuel is getting through?

Throttle body?

In my view, its between the distributor and the ECU?



Tried again today. Put everything back together, still the same, trying and spluttering but just wont run.

Had the same two fault codes come up on connecting the battery. Both cleared and didn't return after numerous attempts at starting so I disconnected the battery and they returned. So these faults just come up on disconnection/re connection of the battery then clear.

So no faults showing Ahhhhhhhhhhh!

Its looking like its going to the breakers soon, just do not have any more time to mess around with it. Problem is. I know if I take it to a garage, which it will have to be towed, then they will only do the same as I have only charge lots of money.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:06 PM   #24
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I have tried starting the car with the connection to the manifold pressure sensor undone and it throws up a fault code 00519 -Intake manifold pressure sensor open circuit / short with power intermittent. On re connection this clears. Does not seem to make any difference if it is connected or not, the car still splutters and chugs just the same.

Ignition switch fine.

Every fuse removed and checked, but not done the relay's yet as surely if it were a fuse or a relay, then it would either work or not, it does run. but chuggs very badly then sneezes through the throttle and dies, which would indicate a timing anomaly to me. As the timing is mechanically correct (and hasn't been touched) then it may be a 'rouge' signal from a failing halls sensor? I really don't know.

EGR valve? May be worth checking this out. If I can get to the thing without taking the engine out!

If it were something that could be diagnosed either with the scan tool, a multimeter or a process of elimination then I would have fixed it by now, unfortunately, everything is drawing a blank and pointing to the only way to sort this out is by changing parts, which is exactly what I wanted to avoid, as I could have done this from the off and not wasted a load of time 'diagnosing' something that was 'undiagnoseable'

The failure mode (or lead up to the failure) was -

Car started with old fuel and fuel filter, as was, from being stood, it was started every few months prior to that and was OK. Jumped from another car as the battery was kanackered. Started and ran perfect, settled down to a smooth tick-over and revved freely, left ticking over for half an hour. I week goes by.

Bought a new battery and fitted. starts up fine but then starts to run lumpy (like it was only firing on 3 cylinders). The testing began... I week goes by.

Still running on 3, out of frustration sprayed the whole engine and components in WD. Restored, running smooth, revving freely, then 5 mins later running worse than ever and wont really start, just chuggs the sneezes through the throttle. Another 4 weeks of research and testing.

That's it, pretty much everything has been checked out, cant find anything wrong (well, anything that tests wrong) so, its change parts out time.

Thanks for there suggestions but already covered all the easy stuff, most of the intermediary stuff, and some of the hardish stuff that I am capable of.

Last edited by Mooresy; 08-12-2019 at 07:37 PM..
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:51 PM   #25
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Yep, all I can now do is start to change parts staring with the cheapest, Got some leads on order to rule that one out and also a second hand distributor, which comes with another cap.

If these don't fix it then I'll go for a coil, failing that? Throttle body? Then a fuel injection rail, an ECU. I honestly don't know, cant find anything wrong, cant get much time to really work on it in the light.

Got a distributor and some HT's on order, It wont be these, but you got to start somewhere, wasting your time and money...

Exactly the route I didn't want to go down...
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Old 23-12-2019, 09:07 PM   #26
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OK, Its fixed. Thanks for all the support and suggestions.

Still cant get my head around it. Well I can, but there are still some things I don't understand.

Bought a set of new Intermotor HT's, fitted them today and it fired-up instantly and settled to a smooth idle at around 900 rpm. Perfect.

Totally confused by how the originals failed, all at once, all together, also how each plug was sparking strongly when tested with no tracking when checked in the dark. Also, checked with strobe HT clamp and it showed them to be sparking. Finally, tested them for continually and resistance and all tested fine. So why didn't they allow the feckin' car to run?



Took the new ones off and replaced with the old again, just to check that I wasn't loosing my head, and no, wouldn't start, just 'chugging' on one cylinder? intermittently. Took each plug out and to check and they were fooking sparking, every fooking one!!!

Put the new ones back on, fired up instantly, ticking over smooth. Took the new ones out, and obviously they were sparking, just the fooking same as the original ones.

So, what happened was, the car was stood for over two years and started every now and then, It always started and ticked over fine. The week before I got into these problems it started fine and ticked over sweet. The very next weekend it was started again and developed a misfire on one cylinder. At this stage I beloved it to be a plug lead perhaps as I found that one could be unplugged without effecting the running. Next weekend it wouldn't start, so this made me think it perhaps has a dodgy lead, but now something else has developed.

These are the readings for the defective plug leads. ie defective meaning they allow the plugs to spark and give the impression of functioning leads but not allow the engine to run?

4 = 5.48k Ohms
3 = 5.94K Ohms
2 = 5.74k Ohms
1 = 5.83k Ohms

For reference the new plug leads all tested at around 2 - 2.5 Ohms. Now I don't think the results above are bad enough not to allow the car to run, but it appears that they are?

This has been a frustrating journey, that totally mislead me. Still will never know how the HT's can go from an intermittent misfire on one cylinder to a complete no-start in less than half an hour.

One big circle. Just glad it was something and nothing.
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Old 23-12-2019, 11:12 PM   #27
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Really pleased you have finally fixed it. Looks far too good to scrap too.

Phil
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Old 24-12-2019, 12:03 AM   #28
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Cheers,
Yep, would have been a shame to scrap it. Still smells new inside and only done 35,000 miles. Not bad for a car that will be 23 next year.

I knew it was no more than a 50.00 fix, just had to find it. Who'd have thought HT's could have tricked me so much. Arrrrggg!
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Old 29-12-2019, 01:22 AM   #29
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Ha ha ha, Its never that fooking easy is it!

Having got it running sweet on Monday I then commenced to purchasing new disks, pads, Shell Helix oil, oil filter, air filter, cabin filter and fresh brake fluid to bleed through. All of these were fitted 26th and it was running very nicely indeed.Took it for a test spin, all good.

Came to start it today and guess what. Yep, It wont start. Turning over, but wont fire. Plugs wet again, and plugs sparking again, however spark looked a bit weak.

So, as mentioned in my previous post. Quote - Still cant get my head around it. Well I can, but there are still some things I don't understand. Yep, I couldn't understand what was wrong with the HT leads, because there was nothing wrong with them. Swapping them out was a fluke. Swapping the old ones back was a fluke, and a bloody good one, Had me, half fooled.

Changed the coil for the second hand one I bought, still would not start. Then thought Id swap the distributor over, Did this and guess what, It started, Trimmed it in and all was good, running sweet again Turned it off/on many times, all good. So I resigned myself to a dodgy Halls sensor or something, and packed away.

Just as Id finished and was loosing the light, tried it again, it had been stood for about 15 mins. Would not start, turning over fine. but just not firing AGAIN!!!!

Plugged in the diagnostic and Im getting two fault codes, the same ones that have always been present.

00533 Idle speed regulation control limit exceed.
01087 Basic setting not performed, signal outside tolerances.

This is what the Snap-on diagnostic says -

00533 Idle speed regulation control limit exceed - Intake leak/blockage, throttle valve tight/sticking IAC Valve or ISC actuator/position sensor.

01087 Basic setting not performed, signal outside tolerances - Throttle valve tight/sticking.

So looks like a throttle body issue. Would this allow the car not to start, then to start, then not to etc?

So far spent 176.50 on getting a car back on the road that wont run, It did run, and tricked me into spending more money, then stopped again. I really have to move on now.
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