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Old 16-03-2005, 09:36 AM   #1
bathdub
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Default Help! Timing - grrr

Must get me another of those 009 distributors...

I'm trying to time the wheezy old 1500cc in my van. Engine is an H series, and is running a vacuum advance distributor. The crankshaft pulley has only 2 notches in it. The old faithful Idiot's Guide doesn't show any model as having only 2 notches on the pulley let alone a 1500!

My problem is that I don't know which notch to time to. When setting the timing, do I time it with the vacuum hose on or off? If I time with a strobe, I can get the engine to run with the notches aligned with the crankcase with the vac hose on or off, but I have to make a significant change to the position of the distributor to do this.

The vacuum mechanism works fine (by sucking on it), but doesn't advance the timing as the revs increase. If I time the vehicle at idle without the vac hose connected and then connect it the timing advances big time. Me thinks something is not right here...

Any ideas to help me before I go out and buy a simple old mechanical advance dizzy???
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Old 16-03-2005, 10:08 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathdub
Must get me another of those 009 distributors...

I'm trying to time the wheezy old 1500cc in my van. Engine is an H series, and is running a vacuum advance distributor. The crankshaft pulley has only 2 notches in it. The old faithful Idiot's Guide doesn't show any model as having only 2 notches on the pulley let alone a 1500!

My problem is that I don't know which notch to time to. When setting the timing, do I time it with the vacuum hose on or off? If I time with a strobe, I can get the engine to run with the notches aligned with the crankcase with the vac hose on or off, but I have to make a significant change to the position of the distributor to do this.

The vacuum mechanism works fine (by sucking on it), but doesn't advance the timing as the revs increase. If I time the vehicle at idle without the vac hose connected and then connect it the timing advances big time. Me thinks something is not right here...

Any ideas to help me before I go out and buy a simple old mechanical advance dizzy???
why change the dissy because you lack some of information on how to setup the vacuum one?!..

vac dissies are great when setup right..

time it with the hoses OFF... although technically it shouldnt make much difference at idle.. what speed is it idling at.. 1200rpm?!

take no.1 plug out and using a pencil or something work out where TDC is... then go from there to work out which timing mark to use..

itll work...

good luck
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Old 16-03-2005, 10:10 AM   #3
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I am no expert, but my understanding is that you cannot time vacum dizzy at high revs, as it is not revs which advance the timing, but throttle opening, so unless you have a rolling road (and a remarkable lack of mechanical sympathy) so you can hold the throttle fully open for long enough to check with a strobe you can't check max advance !!

You need to set the timing at idle with vacum disconnected I think, either to 7.5deg or 10deg depending on ?????

If it was me, I would use the strobe light to set timing to the notch on the left (probably 7.5deg, maybe TDC) at idle, then drive round the block and see it if runs OK, if it seems gutless, then I would set to the right notch (probably 10deg, maybe 7.5deg) and try again.
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Old 16-03-2005, 12:10 PM   #4
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OK so first find TDC on #1 cylinder using a pencil as Mr. quan says. Turn crankshaft pulley clockwise to bring pencil to the top of its travel and make a mark on the pulley. Go over TDC a bit and then turn the pulley anti-clock, stop when the pencil is at the top of its travel and make a mark. TDC is halfway between these two marks.

Although there are some vacuum advance only distributors about, chances are your distributor uses centrifugal weights to advance timing upto about 3000 RPM and also manifold vacuum to give a small increase in advance as revs increase just above idle. At idle, when manifold vacuum is at its greatest, the vacuum hole in the carb is masked by the edge of the butterfly (provided the thottle stop screw is set correctly). As the throttle is opened slightly, the vacuum takeoff hole is uncovered and the suck advances the timing by rotating the points mounting plate a little. Throttle is opened more and manifold vacuum is reduced to the point where it will no longer hold the vacuum advance and the points plate returns to its rest position. By this time distributor revs have made the bob weights swing out and take over ignition advance duties.

Find TDC, mark the static (or idle) firing position on the pulley and the case joint with white paint, connect up you strobe, run the engine and rotate the distributor to align the marks. Bring the revs up to see the centrifugal timing advance.
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Old 16-03-2005, 12:40 PM   #5
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Sounds like your distributor is a total vacuum unit. Can you post/mail a pic of the distributor and the two timing marks?
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Old 16-03-2005, 01:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby5153
Sounds like your distributor is a total vacuum unit. Can you post/mail a pic of the distributor and the two timing marks?
bloody good point!

if thats the case.. time with the hose ON!
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Old 16-03-2005, 04:52 PM   #7
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The notch on the left is the one you use. I would time it statically it with a voltmeter on the coil + terminal to earth (or a 12v bulb) if the points are gapped at 0.4mm you should be fine and it will purr :-) Ok, a strobe will be more accurate with an old engine but I find static timing is pretty accurate.

Hmmm, Try blowing down the vac advance pipe, it may be blocked at the carb end...
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Old 16-03-2005, 09:56 PM   #8
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stay away from the 009, the first notch is the tdc mark always set up with vac pipe of and with the engine warm, make sure the notch lines up with the case seam had same prob with my motor
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Old 16-03-2005, 10:04 PM   #9
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nowt wrong with 009's, time one at 10 deg static or 32 @3000+ and it'll be right, the people who say they are crap don't know how to use them properly!
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Old 17-03-2005, 11:44 AM   #10
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TDC isn't always marked on the pulley wheel, if it is it's marked on the front of the wheel, not the back rim where the timing marks are. You can mark it yourself using a protractor 7.5 degrees to the left of the left timing notch. This is how my 1300 F engine is and the 1500 is the same. To test the accuracy take #1 spark plug out and use a pencil to see when the piston is at the top with the rotor arm pointing at the notch on the dizzy rim. You can usually feel when it's at TDC because you can rock the crankshaft back and forth slightly (with an old engine)
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