hydrogen fuel cell cars… better than electric? - Page 3 - VW Forum - VZi, Europe's largest VW, community and sales
 
Machine 7, high quality air-cooled  restoration and performance parts

     
 

Go Back   VW Forum - VZi, Europe's largest VW, community and sales > Community > Chat/Discussion

Chat/Discussion Kind of like a VW club online - you can sit in our virtual pub and talk about whatever you want to. All opinions are valid, but please no insulting (other than to our intelligence,) abusive or libellous posts. Please feel free to post your opinion on any given subject, but also be aware that others have the equal right to disagree with you - and some will certainly tell you so. No 'For Sale' or 'Want To Buy' ads, plugs for your business, links to 'for sale' ads or Ebay links to your (or your mate's) auction (please use the VZi 'Classifieds' section) - this also includes thinly veiled "What's my car worth?" threads too (please use the 'Dude! What's My Car Worth?' forum) - and please don't use just to post links to other VW forums or websites - we are aware that other sites exist (obviously), but blatant 'plugs' (poaching) will simply be deleted.

Machine 7, high quality air-cooled  restoration and performance parts
Reply Post New Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17-10-2019, 09:27 AM   #21
gojira
I'm not an addict... honest!
 
gojira's Avatar

Trading feedback: (0)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MK/Bedford
Posts: 4,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Passion 4 View Post
‪20,000 litres

The amount of water needed to produce one kilogram of cotton; equivalent to a single t-shirt and pair of jeans… ‬
the same requirement as producing 8kg of rice. doesn't sound that bad to me... where the water comes from is another question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Passion 4 View Post
‪Stats be crazy!
people who read stats without any context have been failed by the education system whose one goal in a democratic society imo should be to teach critical analysis skills.

(that's not aimed at you, i know your post was tongue in cheek)
__________________
the power of the riff compels me

BedfordVDubs

Last edited by gojira; 17-10-2019 at 09:31 AM..
gojira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2019, 12:49 AM   #22
Orby1
Saddest VZi'er 2019
 
Orby1's Avatar

Trading feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A little village near High Wycombe
Posts: 6,652
Default

One thing I wonder about is how much environmental damage is caused mining all the lithium needed for all the millions of batteries in electric cars. Just how much lithium is there in the ground, and how destructive is removing it?
__________________



www.wolfsburgweedhuggers.co.uk/
Orby1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2019, 01:10 AM   #23
type3
Help! I'm trapped in here
 
type3's Avatar

Trading feedback: (10)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Anulpha Pass
Posts: 16,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orby1 View Post
One thing I wonder about is how much environmental damage is caused mining all the lithium needed for all the millions of batteries in electric cars. Just how much lithium is there in the ground, and how destructive is removing it?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...place-on-earth

type3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2019, 01:21 AM   #24
type3
Help! I'm trapped in here
 
type3's Avatar

Trading feedback: (10)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Anulpha Pass
Posts: 16,177
Default

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_1...upply-for-evs/
type3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2019, 05:04 AM   #25
Orby1
Saddest VZi'er 2019
 
Orby1's Avatar

Trading feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A little village near High Wycombe
Posts: 6,652
Default

^^^^ Good grief ^^^^
One wonders about how smug the EV drivers whirring around our cities would feel if they were more aware of all that.
Environmentally friendly my arse .
__________________



www.wolfsburgweedhuggers.co.uk/
Orby1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2019, 12:48 PM   #26
type3
Help! I'm trapped in here
 
type3's Avatar

Trading feedback: (10)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Anulpha Pass
Posts: 16,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orby1 View Post
^^^^ Good grief ^^^^
One wonders about how smug the EV drivers whirring around our cities would feel if they were more aware of all that.
Environmentally friendly my arse .
“An estimated 180,000 Toyota Priuses will be sold in the U.S. this year [2010], and every single one of them uses in its electric motor some 2.2 pounds of neodymium, a rare earth mineral that is mostly found in China.”

Crazy eh?!
type3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2019, 02:09 PM   #27
Samage
Help! I'm trapped in here
 
Samage's Avatar

Trading feedback: (0)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The naughty step
Posts: 10,451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orby1 View Post
^^^^ Good grief ^^^^
One wonders about how smug the EV drivers whirring around our cities would feel if they were more aware of all that.
Environmentally friendly my arse .


They'll refuse to acknowledge it. EV nuts tend to go very quiet when you point out any flaws.
__________________
You get born, you keep your head down, then you die. If you're lucky.
Samage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2019, 08:29 PM   #28
trenchfoot
Seasoned Chat Slut
 
trenchfoot's Avatar

Trading feedback: (0)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orby1 View Post
One thing I wonder about is how much environmental damage is caused mining all the lithium needed for all the millions of batteries in electric cars. Just how much lithium is there in the ground, and how destructive is removing it?
1. Not much it's in brines, it's pumped into ponds in the desert evaporated and scooped up. There's loads under Cornwall they are exploring exploiting it.
2. Lithium is the 25th most abundant element on earth.
3. It's in water they pump it out!

Remember laptops tablets and mobile phones also use lithium batteries using loads of resources and no one complains about them!
__________________
Forum EV Bore! ;)
trenchfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2019, 08:33 PM   #29
trenchfoot
Seasoned Chat Slut
 
trenchfoot's Avatar

Trading feedback: (0)
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orby1 View Post
^^^^ Good grief ^^^^
One wonders about how smug the EV drivers whirring around our cities would feel if they were more aware of all that.
Environmentally friendly my arse .
They use them in most electric motors! Starter motors. Electric windows, washing machines, etc etc you get the drift. Also some EVs use motors that don't use magnets.
I wonder who could put all these story's out there (oil companies) by any chance?
__________________
Forum EV Bore! ;)
trenchfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-10-2019, 11:39 AM   #30
Bugsy_Malone 666
Help! I'm trapped in here
 
Bugsy_Malone 666's Avatar

VZi Member Sponsor

Trading feedback: (7)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Near Hells mouth know as Basingstoke
Posts: 13,316
Default

I'm wondering while we are all arguing about how bad lithium is to mine, thats maybe not the problem, what do you do about recycling the old stuff? Lithium batteries have a limited lifespan, then they need to be recycled, so how bad is that for the environment?

I personally think that a hydrogen fuel cell is probably the way forward, because the first part of the process is get hydrogen and end up with nothing but water out the tail pipe. It creates electricity as its process. Now we know that you need to make that hydrogen and it uses loads of electricity to do, so why dont you just put it in your car? Well because you need batteries. The hydrogren fuel cell is the battery system.

I dont think hydrogen fuel cells wear out nearly the same as lithium batteries, but the drawback is going to be that it uses platinum as part of the core which is a rare earth metal. I mean gold is a kind of rare earth metal and they coat tons of electrical connectors with it so it might not be too bad.

But lifespan wise:

Lithium batteries around 8 years/100,000 miles
Hydrogen Fuel Cell 150,000 miles

So then the next step is infrastructure and creating hydrogen, technically solar, wind, hydroelectric and nuclear can do it, all types of energy that cant really be fitted to cars.

I Mean potentially a crash might go a bit Hindenburg, but lithium batteries still catch fire, in a way which is hard to control.

So me personally, I'd quite like a hydrogen fuel cell.

I mean this is hydrogen power..... (yes I know its not a fuel cell car)



I think thats classed as 'hotrodding' you hydrogen motor
__________________
Its like being chased by an imploding star...

...One day I'll finish it all.
Bugsy_Malone 666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply Post New Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Disclaimer: For recreational purposes only, some assembly required. Any resemblance to real persons,
living or dead is purely intentional and the site admins are not responsible for direct, indirect,
incidental or consequential ridicule resulting from any defect or failure to perform. No animals
were harmed in the creation of this forum. Colours may fade over time. No other warranty expressed or implied.

volkszone.com

SupportingSupporting Brad's Cancer Foundation

 











 
© Volkszone • Terms and Conditions of use