[dub and dubber]

Edit:
Closing this thread.
The person in question,
Jon Hancock, is named in more detail in the last post on the last page.
Thanks for reading and good luck with your projects!

Hi all,
Just checking in to see if there's any interest in a thread looking at the work of a particular welder who's sales patter and personality certainly fooled me!
There would be video, loads of photos, transcripts of emails and WhatsApp messages, an assessment-of-work-done letter and links to Facebook, YouTube and Dropbox.
All names and obvious identifiers will have been removed.
There's a lot of material so it could take a few days to put it all together, which means I won't comment much on here until I know there's an interest, and I've put the whole thing together.
Thanks for reading!

 

[Pondlife]

From your post It can only be assume that you have had some work done that you aren't happy about and or think you have been overcharged for... ??

Have you been in contact with the person that carried the work out and discussed your concerns with them?

 

[stirlingmoz]

Not much point without names - unless there are lessons we can all learn from.

Stirlingmoz

 

[clarkson]

You are free to post what you like.

 

[dub and dubber]

From your post It can only be assume that you have had some work done that you aren't happy about and or think you have been overcharged for... ??

Have you been in contact with the person that carried the work out and discussed your concerns with them?

I made a poor choice of bus, knowing it was complete but rotten and paid not very much accordingly.
I then found its twin, an empty shell with all the rust sorted out, which looked like being a good bet for transfering all the good stuff over.
This guy quite rightly pointed out that the shell was not as up together as I thought it was and would need work, so better to restore the rotten one which he waxed enthusiastic over.
All opinions I've had so far are that, as a "professional" he should have known that the rotten one was unviable except for silly money, and he should have advised me to break it and start again.
That is point number one.
It turns out that the work he did on it made it even less viable (and dangerous though giving it the semblance of soundness when underneath welds were absent) ... demonstrated by the fact that only the areas he hadn't worked on were any use for selling as cuts etc.
Where he did work was slap dash to say the least, with panels simply not even located correctly.

So yes, the thread title is a rhetorical question, which could be of interest to people, but I'm checking the level and type of interest before launching in with all the sordid details.

As for communication, I appear to be dealing with a very slippery person who, at best, could be said to have fallen for his own propaganda and can't appreciate the magnitude of his errors, and at worst is yet again working to his familiar "business model" which involves spending other people's money on projects that are not likely to be finished because the sums involved turn out to be rediculously high.

 

[dub and dubber]

Not much point without names - unless there are lessons we can all learn from.

Stirlingmoz

There are certainly lessons to be learned.
If opinion continues to be unanimous then there is a case for warning people off giving this guy anything other than the basic stuff to do.
Some say he shouldn't even do that.
I guess I didn't want to just launch into a naming and shaming until I could be 100% certain I wasn't wrecking a legitimate business.

 

[fly-by-split]

enough with the cryptic clues already :lol: if youve got the evidence to back it up get naming some names,not for want of shit stirring.........but it may stop someone else from getting taken for a large sum of money.
now vans are big bucks any amount of cowboys have jumped on the bandwagon.it happens all too often,a mate of mine has had a couple in over the recent months that had supposidly been 'restored' , he's ended up rectifying various bits on them.....propper sacks of shit.just makes you feel sorry for the people who have handed over money for it.

 

[Fimble]

Dooooo iiiiit!

I'd love to see what NOT to do in a restoration. If it's as bad as you say, you could probably have a case to take him to small claims.

 

[oilyT]

Post some photos up. if its as bad as you say then people need warning .

 

[callaghan]

What or who recommended him to you?

 

[dub and dubber]

Thanks all so far ... This is helping a lot, and apologies for not answering every post.
I'm going to try to get through to this guy one last time and then decide what, and how, to post.
It might become a case of me getting private messages from people who are about to get work done, and if it's with this guy I can tell them.
If on the other hand he continues with the BS I will be able to proactively spread the word in order to protect people from asking him to take on anything but the basic stuff.

 

[clarkson]

Thanks all so far ... This is helping a lot.
I'm going to try to get through to this guy one last time and then decide what, and how, to post.
It might become a case of me getting private messages from people who are about to get work done, and if it's with this guy I can tell them.
If on the other hand he continues with the BS I will be able to proactively spread the word in order to protect people from asking him to take on anything but the basic stuff.

Why not just give us the back story and omit any names at this point.

 

[dub and dubber]

Why not just give us the back story and omit any names at this point.

Thats pretty much what I would do, but as I say there's a lot of material which will take time to compile into something accessible, so I'm sounding out in the mean time ... and we haven't finished "negotiating" yet, so there's nothing to be done until then.

 

[eagle]

The title says NO in other words. Do they appear on here.? Did you have a written agreement with them to do the work and amendments in writing as well.? Name and shame as most people are saying. Hopefully it won't happen to anyone else but..

 

[dub and dubber]

The title says NO in other words. Do they appear on here.? Did you have a written agreement with them to do the work and amendments in writing as well.? Name and shame as most people are saying. Hopefully it won't happen to anyone else but..

That's right, as I've said it's a rhetorical question.
They do appear on here ... this is the "community" they want to be a part of.
They're really enthusiastic about VW's
and they come across as affable etc, but therein lies part of the problem.
They remind me of a particular kind of kid at primary school, who would say
"the dog ate my homework" and actually kind of believe it?
In the same vein, if caught red handed it would be a case of "so and so was doing it as well" or if caught up in a fight then "he started it" ...... You know the type.
None of this is about the work itself of course, so in that sense not so relevant, but it goes some way to explaining how I find myself in this situation.
My project was in fact a secret 60th birthday present for my Wife of a restored camper to tour the UK coast in on our retirement.
I had seven years to achieve that and in order to, in a way, forget about it so it could be going on in the background and not impinge on the day to day, (making it easier to keep under wraps) I was only too happy to hand over the bus and watch it being done at arms length.
What I have therefore, is a mass of photographs emails and Whatsapp messages, that are very telling with the benefit of hindsight, but no dedicated contract document as such.
To be covered in that way I would have needed the restorer's version of a "pre-nup" that includes the statement "if the vehicle is not economically viable there will be no "marriage" ..... I would expect that a person claiming "professional" status, who had any scruples whatsoever, would appreciate that they had a duty of care, and would not take the work on.
This guy will say, I'm sure, that it wasn't apparent at first how bad the bus was (because, yes, it got worse once the unpicking started in earnest) but to suggest that the state of it wasn't obvious to a so-called enthusiast and professional is disingenuous to say the least.
I think, in explaining some of this I'm starting sound to like a whiner and a whinger.
Yes, I feel sorry for myself a bit, but my main concern is about how best to move forward.
Others have chosen to draw a line under their "disappointments" with this guy by simply walking away and having the work done twice, but I can't quite get my line drawn yet!

 

[Happystamps]

Step 1- Relax. If you've not yet paid, then you don't pay if the work isn't to an acceptable standard. If you've paid, you can take him/her/them to small claims on the same grounds.
Step 2- Post pics up showing the quality of the work.
Step 3- Get confirmation that the work is shoddy, or be assured that the work is actually OK and reasons why.
Step 4- When you have confirmation that the work is shoddy, then give the name.

 

[dub and dubber]

Step 1- Relax. If you've not yet paid, then you don't pay if the work isn't to an acceptable standard. If you've paid, you can take him/her/them to small claims on the same grounds.
Step 2- Post pics up showing the quality of the work.
Step 3- Get confirmation that the work is shoddy, or be assured that the work is actually OK and reasons why.
Step 4- When you have confirmation that the work is shoddy, then give the name.

Thanks ... that steering box you've helped me with testing is the best part off the bus in question btw.
Step 1: I've certainly paid!
Small claims doesn't have the teeth I'm afraid.
Step 2: Getting ever nearer ...
Step 3: I've got confirmation.
Some rounded numbers:
I asked for £10,000 initially, on the basis that he would then not be out of pocket on parts and materials.
He offered £3,000 paid over time.
I went to £7,000
He offered £5,000
I put together a proposal in the form of letters in which:
1) I ask for payment and no further action from me,
2) he asks for a payment plan,
3) I accept and it becomes binding.

I proposed £6,000 as representing less than half of the labour cost (so he still gets to have earned about £15 for the hours he says he put in)

His response is to wriggle, haggle and puff up and twist the narrative (like trying to flip a deadline proposed by me and make it look like his.)
Significantly he has turned "no further action" into a grandiose gagging order including all personal contact, print media and digital media, for ever more!
This is what has prompted me to post on here and see what his beloved community thinks.

So that's where we are with it.
I'm on the verge of passing up the cash in order to blow the whole thing open ...
Or revert to asking for £10,000 which is still reasonable in my book.
He claims by the way not to be able to liquidate certain assets, but I have him quoted online as having those assets available for sale "at the right price" .......

 

[dub and dubber]

NB!
I will not answer ANY "is it so-and-so" posts.

 

[wastedspark]

Can you get the first instalment of this saga up by 9 tonight? I'm about to open a bottle of red and could do with something to read,

In all seriousness I feel your pain, I hate bad workmanship (unless it's mine!)
And I think the truth should be told, name and shame!

Plenty of pics please I get bored if there's to many words:lol:

 

[dub and dubber]

Can you get the first instalment of this saga up by 9 tonight? I'm about to open a bottle of red and could do with something to read,

In all seriousness I feel your pain, I hate bad workmanship (unless it's mine!)
And I think the truth should be told, name and shame!

Plenty of pics please I get bored if there's to many words:lol:

Sorry that's too early!
I'm getting the general consensus though, so will start applying myself to the task of putting it all together so there's something for everyone ...
I've got a lot of name references to remove!