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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Following other discussions on here, but in order to avoid
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I thought it best to start a new thread.

Whenever the subject of an uninsured driver appears on here, the response is usually unanimous ranging from jizz on them make your feelings known, through beating with a stick, to sending them to the depths of hell.

As most people probably already know, when the exact details are looked at, most vehicles moved with an 'A' frame are done illegally and the same is probably true of a lot 'recovery' tows with a rope/bar. If someone was unfortunate to be caught up in an accident with these towed vehicles, then insurance would be invalidated - effectively meaning the person is driving uninsured.

So why is it then, that the attitude I seem to see is that;

Driving to work uninsured, through a perceived necessity - One of the worst crimes imaginable.
Moving a vehicle as part of a hobby, in less than a legal manner - Worth a punt, it will probably be ok.

 

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Rent a trailer?
I don't think you've got to the crux of the question there.

In reposnse to the OP, I know what you mean. I hear of folk 'having to' drive to work, instead of using public transoprt / getting a lift / cab etc. as they're not insured, yet it's OK to try and get away with towing 'once in a while'.

'Tis a strange world, and probably a reflect on how society tries to bend the rules / morals to fall in line with their own requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Rent a trailer?
Which is of course the legal way to do it, unless you passed your test more recently when you will need to take a further test in order to tow (IIRC).;)

If every time a vehicle had to be moved, then would the cost of renting a trailer become cheaper as the market would be bigger?

I definitely think though that there is a wide range of views towards breaches of rules.

Driving uninsured every day seems a no-go area.
How about driving a mate's car back the four miles from a football match uninsured because they've been injured?

I have also read comment about doing a vehicle move at night because the roads are quiet, less likely to be pulled. What about driving drunk back from the pub once a year at Christmas while the roads are quiet?

I know it's an extreme comparison, but at which point has the line been crossed? I would argue that it is soon as the illegal act has been started, no matter how 'severe'.
 

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or just cane it down country roads in the wet, swerving all over the shop, splashing water into the path of others, causing clouds of steam for following motorists, while pouring anti-freeze onto the road for the car behind to crash on....

Reminds me of when the water hose split on a Cavalier I had. Coolant was leaking out, and I had about a mile to go before a mate's house where I could get a repair done. It hand rained previously so I was caning it down country lane to get airflow through the engine, while swerving all over the shop to splash puddles onto the block.
Every puddle caused a cloud of steam, but managed to get it onto my mate's drive. Replaced the hose the next morning, topped up and all was fine from then on.
i would adivse a dismount from your high horse ;)
 

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i would adivse a dismount from your high horse ;)
I see no reference to 'self' in the original post, or indeed his first reply.

He has begun a debate on the perceived legality of various aspects of motoring, and has not at any point declared himself an angel / saint / other, and is questioning the opinions of others regarding several aspects on the matter.

You, on the other hand, just want to create another argument.
 

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If someone was unfortunate to be caught up in an accident with these towed vehicles, then insurance would be invalidated - effectively meaning the person is driving uninsured.
A mate got t-boned whilst a framing a freshly painted shell bug back from the bodyshop. The other persons insurance paid out in full with no issues either from the police who attended or the insurers.

Eventhough we're car geeks and know the score with things like a framing the vast majority dont, especially as the recovery firms used to use them not so long ago. However, everyone knows there's no grey area drinking and driving - everyone know's it's wrong.
 

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A mate got t-boned whilst a framing a freshly painted shell bug back from the bodyshop. The other persons insurance paid out in full with no issues either from the police who attended or the insurers.
so this uninsured, law breaking friend had no issuses with the insurance company or the law (police)

can anyone sight me to someone who had their car(s) impounded for no insurance by the police, points on their licence, fine etc
 

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Which is of course the legal way to do it, unless you passed your test more recently when you will need to take a further test in order to tow (IIRC).
Passed my test in 2000 (so come under the "new" rules).

I can tow an unbraked trailer up to 750kg (like anyone)
Or a combination of tow car/trailer up to a total of 3500kg MAM.

So as long as I use something sensible to tow with (golf/passat) rather than a huge land rover, I have a reasonable amount of allowance left for the trailer & "dead" car.

A bit of searching on-line can find some pretty lightweight single axle car trailers that will take a beetle. Buggies could potentailly use trailers intended for large quads.

Alternatively, I could always sweet talk my dad into doing the driving for me.

P.S.

I have an a-frame that we used to use for such things, until being put straight on the legality of such things by the boys in blue ;)
 

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NO YOUR NOT!! :mad::mad::mad:

:)
:lol:..................This could easily get like a Monty Python Script :D

Passed my test in 2000 (so come under the "new" rules).

I can tow an unbraked trailer up to 750kg (like anyone)
Or a combination of tow car/trailer up to a total of 3500kg MAM.

So as long as I use something sensible to tow with (golf/passat) rather than a huge land rover, I have a reasonable amount of allowance left for the trailer & "dead" car.

This sort of thing boils my piss these days.............'the rules' :rolleyes:

I would imagine that anyone, with any degree of experience towing, would agree that having a substantial towing vehicle is the most important single factor in ensuring the safety of the overall rig.

IMO - a pissy little golf is not a responsable prime mover for a 2.5 ton combined trailed load.

I'm not saying it is illegal - I'm just saying it is irresponsable - IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
you was actully driving a car not fit for the road ;)
The car still had a valid MoT certificate, and was still being driven legally. The MoT is not an indication of whether a car is fit for the road, but an indication of whether the testable items meet the requirements at the time it is presented for test. Having not seen the vehicle yourself, how can you comment on whether the vehicle is fit for the road?

i would adivse a dismount from your high horse ;)
The incident you referred to was an error on my part and I fully admit to it. Not smart, not clever and I do not condone my actions in any way or attempt to defend them.

in order to avoid
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or
I thought it best to start a new thread.
So back on topic...

can anyone sight me to someone who had their car(s) impounded for no insurance by the police, points on their licence, fine etc
Example here.
'i was travelling along the motorway with a smart car on an unbraked Aframe [...] the policeman politely asked for my documents, [...] he gave me the ticket 3 points and £60 fine,'

Passed my test in 2000 (so come under the "new" rules).

I can tow an unbraked trailer up to 750kg (like anyone)
Or a combination of tow car/trailer up to a total of 3500kg MAM.
Interesting, having passed prior to 1997 I have to admit that I have never looked into this too closely. My only experience has been when hiring trailers and the rental firm have checked when I passed.;)
I had expected an argument for not using trailers to be that individuals did not hold the required qualifications.
 

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This sort of thing boils my piss these days.............'the rules'

I would imagine that anyone, with any degree of experience towing, would agree that having a substantial towing vehicle is the most important single factor in ensuring the safety of the overall rig.

IMO - a pissy little golf is not a responsable prime mover for a 2.5 ton combined trailed load.

I'm not saying it is illegal - I'm just saying it is irresponsable - IMO.
Totally agree!!

When I first workied this out, I couldn't believe it.
I am actually allowed to tow a much greater weight with my golf, than with my dad's x-trail 4x4 :rolleyes:

There is absolutely no common sense applied in working out what is legally permitted.

Even VW are guilty - according to the handbook, my mk3 is allowed to tow something like 1200kg! I wouldn't want to try it :eek:

(perhaps i should have said "small" instead of "sensible" in my earlier post)
 

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I can tow an unbraked trailer up to 750kg (like anyone)

Or a combination of tow car/trailer up to a total of 3500kg MAM.
My understanding was you (I) can tow up to 750KG as long as it doesn't put you over the 3500kg MAM limit? But tow nothing heavier than 750kg...

Or maybe I'm misunderstood?
 

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The car still had a valid MoT certificate, and was still being driven legally. The MoT is not an indication of whether a car is fit for the road, but an indication of whether the testable items meet the requirements at the time it is presented for test. Having not seen the vehicle yourself, how can you comment on whether the vehicle is fit for the road?
??? are you saying, a car can fail the MOT but be fit to drive on the road ???

The incident you referred to was an error on my part and I fully admit to it. Not smart, not clever and I do not condone my actions in any way or attempt to defend them.
don't brag about your actions on a public forum ;)

Example here.
'i was travelling along the motorway with a smart car on an unbraked Aframe [...] the policeman politely asked for my documents, [...] he gave me the ticket 3 points and £60 fine,'
ineffective trailer brakes, not 'no insurance'

and he was allowed to continue his journey
 

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Totally agree!!

When I first workied this out, I couldn't believe it.
I am actually allowed to tow a much greater weight with my golf, than with my dad's x-trail 4x4 :rolleyes:

There is absolutely no common sense applied in working out what is legally permitted.

Even VW are guilty - according to the handbook, my mk3 is allowed to tow something like 1200kg! I wouldn't want to try it :eek:

(perhaps i should have said "small" instead of "sensible" in my earlier post)
No worries - the 'rules' for towing are a mystery to me.

My understanding was you (I) can tow up to 750KG as long as it doesn't put you over the 3500kg MAM limit? But tow nothing heavier than 750kg...

Or maybe I'm misunderstood?
I'm confused (nothing new there)

I figured the towing vehicle weight had to exceed that of the load, unless it is a 4x4..........

.........That may be something I heard down the pub from a 'bar lawyer' and could easily be complete bollox :D
 

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No worries - the 'rules' for towing are a mystery to me.

I'm confused (nothing new there)

I figured the towing vehicle weight had to exceed that of the load, unless it is a 4x4..........

.........That may be something I heard down the pub from a 'bar lawyer' and could easily be complete bollox :D
This is what I thought too... Although didn't know about the 4x4 bit.
 

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Going back to the very first question:

1) Drive uninsured. If you crash into someone they're pretty fucked, really.

2) Driving in a way that may invalidate your insurance. If I'm understanding, this only affects YOU. I'm 99.9% certain that a 3rd party can still claim
 
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