Volkszone Forum banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there I have a 66 bus with a Beetle 1600 TP engine with twin DRLA carbs and 4 in 1 exhaust with a bug pack silencer. I removed the engine as I am doing up the bus with a new paint job etc. Trying to get it all done in the next month or so for my birthday!

It has some oil leaks so I decided to replace the flywheel seals. I noticed some oil leaking from 2 of the cylinders so I thought I would remove the cylinders and reseal them and put it back together.

Problems? All of the cylinders have a small amount of oil in them - I am guessing my rings are worn? Is that correct or would you expect to find a small puddle of oil in the cylinders?

So if my rings are knackered I would probably go ahead replace the cylinders and pistons with a new kit and thought I would upgrade to 1641cc as it only costs a few quid more. Also I would consider new high lift rockers as I have seen people do on this forum. I do not know what the bottom end is like and do not have any history on the engines mileage. I would like to do the work myself and am happy to bugger around with anything apart from splitting the block! However I am pretty practical and with the right advice I would give it a go but I would rather avoid it!

Questions -
1. Is the oil in the cylinders acceptable? (Is this dumb question)?
2. Can I replace the cylinders and pistons without splitting the case?
3. If I did split the case should I attempt to recondition it myself?
4. Or cost wise is it better to just buy a Street Power motor for £850
5. Or just do the rings?

Are my upgrades sensible? - keep it clean!!!!
I am not looking for a race engine - just a reliable and slightly more powerful engine. In the next 12 - 18 months I will probably replace the engine with a 1776 and IRS my bus.

Sorry for the ramble but please help - any advice would be cool......????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,681 Posts
Wobbly_Bus said:
Questions -
1. Is the oil in the cylinders acceptable? (Is this dumb question)?
2. Can I replace the cylinders and pistons without splitting the case?
3. If I did split the case should I attempt to recondition it myself?
4. Or cost wise is it better to just buy a Street Power motor for £850
5. Or just do the rings?
......????
i hope this will help but im no expert

you can replace the pistons and barrels with out cracking the case just make sure you warm up either side of the barrel before you remove the gunion pin or you will have real problems getting the gunion pin out and will probably bend the con rod

if you do split the case you should be able to recon it yourself its not actually that difficult to rebuild, get yourself a haynes manual it'll shows you step by step how to and fit new main, bigend and camshaft bearings don't bother putting the old ones back it

as for cost, it'll cost you less to do the above than buy a new lump
if the barrels and pistons are ok why dont you just replace the rings ?

i did a total strip down on why 1600 tp and rebuild as i've explained above and it's a cracking little runner nowgot 85mph out of it the other day and it still had a little bit more to give

were abouts are you ? if you need any help that is :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for you replies - I am in East Sussex, Crowborough (Near Tunbridge Wells).

The barrels and pistons seem ok but its hard to tell. There is light scoring in the barrels but I am not sure what is acceptable!

The end play issue does add some complications! The engine is in pieces at the mo. - The carbs / heads / flywheel / pulley / rockers / pushrods are already off! So with the flywheel and pulley off how do I check the end float I read the article and its not clear to me what I need to measure. - Cheers for you help so far!
 

·
I'm not an addict... honest!
Joined
·
4,995 Posts
how did it run before you started the resto?
did it burn oil? - blue smoke? need topping up (depending how bad the leaks were)
compression check would have been a good check

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,482 Posts
flywheel and pulley off how do I check the end float
Oooops! Too late. But you may be able to get some idea by
fitting the Front main bearing shell. See if it is a tight fit and,
especially, if there is movement possible fore and aft.
See if the dowel pins are tight in the case and the holes for them
not deformed.

This sketch shows the relative arrangement of the parts.
With the flywheel nut tightened, the crank is held tightly in
relation to the Front Main bearing.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
626 Posts
Wobbly_Bus said:
The end play issue does add some complications! The engine is in pieces at the mo. - The carbs / heads / flywheel / pulley / rockers / pushrods are already off! So with the flywheel and pulley off how do I check the end float I read the article and its not clear to me what I need to measure. - Cheers for you help so far!
if the case/crank is still together, see if there is any movement in the blue bearing in jims diagram, it has 4 semi circles on its outer face. if there is the case is worn, and will need align bore. if not, see if you can feel any movement in the crank up or down, put something in the end and try to lift it, or put the flywheel back on. there should be no perceptible movement. a lot of play here you definitely need to rebuild the bottom end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi guys - I have not split the case so I dont know if the bearings look ok visually.

Fosch, the engine did run ok before I took it out but I did not do much mileage with it - approx 50 miles since I bought it. I started the engine about once a month and in the last few months it blew blue smoke for 10 mins after starting which then disappeared. It had plenty of go and would do 90kph without any issues. Only problem is its the only VW bus I've driven so I'm not a good critic!

- Update: Without the pulley or flywheel on I can push the crank backwards and forwards in the case and it moves approx 2mm is this a valid test or do I need to put the pulley and flywheel back on and torque them up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,445 Posts
2mm is a lot - and if I understand how your engine is at the moment putting the flywheel on will not make any difference. The blue bearing is what dictates the axial monemenvt of the crank. If the blue bearing is correctly locates and you are getting 2mm of movement this is too much
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK I put the flywheel back on and pushed the flywheel and pulley mount (where the pulley would go or end of the crank if you know what I mean) back and forth. I get a clunk each way and the flywheel moves approx 0.5mm to 1mm from a rough measurement using the end of the pulley mounting (i.e., end of crank).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Speedy Jim thanks for your help - the main bearing is already in as I have not split the case. What do you mean by your statement

"You should be able to see this by fitting the front Main bearing"?

What is the effect of my loose crank?
Can I shim "some" of the movement out?

I did read the article you suggested which was very good. It did not however tell me what the effects of this issue is......

Not sure what to do now......! Is fixing it a big job?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,809 Posts
Not sure, but Jim may have meant "feeling the main bearing". When you move the crank in and out, the bearing should stay clamped firmly in the case, with the flywheel off, and the oil seal removed, you can feel if the main bearing can move in the case, (on really bad ones, you can see it move). If it does, it's going to be a big job, you can't just 'shim out' wear in that area. Case would need splitting, and the bearing seat machining to take an oversize bearing.
Weigh-up the other options and cost, it may be better to get a reconditioned engine eventually.
Consider just re-assmbling the engine, with the minimum of new parts, and run it as-is, until it gives-up, or starts to show signs of giving-up. They often go on for years with excess end float. If you do that, it may not be possible to recondition it later, when it's too far gone. Consider also that if you bring the pistons rings and cylinders (Top end) up to scratch without refurbishing the Con rod & Crankshaft bearings (Bottom end), it will put additional stress on a worn bottom end and accelerate the inevitable. Good luck with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi Laurence - some food for thought in your post! - cheers
I guess what I am confused about is that the wear is forwards and backwards. I would assume that if the case required machining and an oversized bearing then it would suggest that the bearing could move up and down in the case. I do not seem to have any movement up and down it all seems to be forwards and back. That suggests to me that the thickness of the bearing is less or that its seat in the case is too large.

Therefore when you say machining would you be enlarging / rounding the place where the bearing sits?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,809 Posts
You are looking for wear on the thrust face of the bearing seat in the case, (the bearing is flanged). Machining involves opening the hole /seat, to make sure it is round (not oval), and machining the thrust face to take a special bearing with oversize OD, and thicker flanges. If the existing main bearing can move in any direction in the case, even slightly, the only long term cure is to have it machined for oversize bearings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi Laurence, a superb explanation I now get it. If I decide to go for it and get an oversize bearing and case reground what other things would I need to check?

I guess what I am asking here is what could I end up having to change / recondition as I split have split the and whilst I am in there I would need to fix up the "rest" of the stuff in there whatever the rest is?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,809 Posts
That is the "how long is a piece of string" question.
There's no point spending cash on align boring the case if you don't replace all the bearings, and have the crank journals checked for ovality. You could be looking at a reground or new crank, new cam, set of cam followers, oil pump. and that's just to keep it at stock spec.
It's tempting to upgrade, to counterweighted crank, longer stroke, hotter cam, but I would only do that in a new replacement crankcase. ;)
The only limit is your wallet. :crazy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Perhaps the best option would be for me to replace the piston rings / regrind the valves / replace gaskets and seals where I have leaks and chuck it back in?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Decided - the case is coming apart and I will check the condition - I'll be coming back to this thread very soon with more questions I am sure!!!
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top