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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just sitting at my desk and thinking, pondering certain posts on VZi and wondering if they are a fair cross section of society. Has the internet de-valued expertise and intellectual property?

Its so much easier to stay sat on your arse and avoid having to really 'learn' knowledge and just ask, or google your way to an answer. i think thatoften the real knowledge is lost, and the people who really know what they are on about are being de-valued. If you are a person who trully knows their subject it is painfully obvious to see through the googled advice people give, but do the majority of people realise this?

It applies to pretty much any aspect of life, and to be honest i think its quite a sad thing.

Just thinking out loud.
 

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Holy Calamity
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I dunno really, interesting though. At the end of the day though, if someone learns via google and not directly via someone knowledgeable, does it matter 99.99% of the time? If I want to know how something is spelt, is it bad that I use a spell checker and not consult a dictionary? Or if I want to know the answer to a maths problem, that I use a calculator and not a pen and paper? Dunno.

I think the Internet has broadened the knowledge of the majority of people that use it properly. If information is power, then as a species we are more powerful than we have ever been. The Internet is responsible for a lot of that. And I think that's a good thing :)
 

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DarrenW said:
I think the Internet has broadened the knowledge of the majority of people that use it properly. If information is power, then as a species we are more powerful than we have ever been. The Internet is responsible for a lot of that. And I think that's a good thing :)
Yeah, but who knows the real basic stuff anymore like flint knapping?

(I actually do like knapping a bit of flint from time to time :lol: :eek:)

I just get the feeling that the basic skills have disappeared to be replaced by a reliance on microwave meals and drinks in a can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I agree with most of what you say Darren...but i think learning something is different to repeating something....i think it takes practice, personal thought, reflection and understanding to really learn something, whereas i think people often mistake reading something from a questionable source and repeating it as knowledge, in a quick fix manner as learning....i know its a fine line, but i think there is a line there.

Internet experts can be a very dangerous thing IMO.
 

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na the internet has created plenty of intellectuals and experts, at the moment we seem to have far to many experts on hand lol.

in a way it actually brings knowledge to the next level, if you ask one `expert` you get the one experts knowledge, in the way of the net and a forum you get collective intellegence and problem solving, why struggle on your own when a collective can come up with a solution.

i still read alot of books, books = knowledge, knowledge = power ;)
 

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M-A-D said:
Yeah, but who knows the real basic stuff anymore like flint knapping?

(I actually do like knapping a bit of flint from time to time :lol: :eek:)

I just get the feeling that the basic skills have disappeared to be replaced by a reliance on microwave meals and drinks in a can.
What's wrong with that though? In theory? I mean, I'd sooner reheat my homemade soup up in a microwave in four minutes flat than spend ages hunting for wood first :)
 

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It is an interesting thought.

As a teacher I know my subject (design/engineering) pretty darn well. My first port of call when I need some information or knowledge is usually one of the many books I have acquired, yet my students dive straight onto google.

Now the internet can be and is very helpfull but I think people can get sucked into reading information that isn't maybe technically correct or spend so much time trying to search out the correct information that they simply don't learn anything at all.

Then you can debate what "learning" actually is. Its is certainly not simply acquiring knowledge (something our education system has got wrong) it is also about interpreting that knowledge and developing on it to help improve your situation and/or society - in my opinion.

The internet is a good comodity, but one that should be used with caution both by those who host information and especially those who read it. There is a lot of disinformation out there and knowledge isn't everything if you have no idea how to apply it !

Adrian
 

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Holy Calamity
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JAN said:
I agree with most of what you say Darren...but i think learning something is different to repeating something....i think it takes practice, personal thought, reflection and understanding to really learn something, whereas i think people often mistake reading something from a questionable source and repeating it as knowledge, in a quick fix manner as learning....i know its a fine line, but i think there is a line there.

Internet experts can be a very dangerous thing IMO.
True, but Internet experts are the same people as Bar/Pub experts, they just have a wider audience. I'd wager that they've always been there since the dawn of society and proper civilisation - "yeah but you see you REALLY want to grind up the petals THIS way to get a proper blue for your cave painting. Ignore what he said, that's bollocks"... :lol:

I think the more that different people repeat something, the more chance there is of someone making an adaptation/mutation of whatever it is and refining it into something better. Be it a recipe for a cake, a metalworking process, a stupid meme, whatever. Sometimes it's better to not have a fundamental understanding of what you're doing, there are fewer barriers to innovation that way.

If that makes sense? I hope so :)
 

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elajf1 said:
Now the internet can be and is very helpfull but I think people can get sucked into reading information that isn't maybe technically correct or spend so much time trying to search out the correct information that they simply don't learn anything at all.
Tinternet is full of unqualified information - it is a shame that people rely on it.

Research should mean more than just typing something into Wiki.
 

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Surely people who submit information or knowledge on the interwebby have the intention of spreading it?

OK,so it might be misinterpreted/reinterpreted but you can't blame the creator? :p

I think Google is a great tool.I have found a lot of stuff related to my interests like music through it.

Just cutting and pasting info from Google to give as "advice" to people is bad though. ;)
 

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Interesting.
But I bet the people with the 'original' knowlegde are googling to find things they don't know about too, nothing wrong with sharing. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
DarrenW said:
True, but Internet experts are the same people as Bar/Pub experts, they just have a wider audience.
lol, your probably right, but the wider audiance increases the risk caused by these people.

DarrenW said:
I think the more that different people repeat something, the more chance there is of someone making an adaptation/mutation of whatever it is and refining it into something better.
Or the wider spread the false or incomplete information becomes, the more believable it becomes to the masses....'oh it must be true, loads of people have told me.'
 

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JAN said:
I was just sitting at my desk and thinking, pondering certain posts on VZi and wondering if they are a fair cross section of society. Has the internet de-valued expertise and intellectual property?

Its so much easier to stay sat on your arse and avoid having to really 'learn' knowledge and just ask, or google your way to an answer. i think thatoften the real knowledge is lost, and the people who really know what they are on about are being de-valued. If you are a person who trully knows their subject it is painfully obvious to see through the googled advice people give, but do the majority of people realise this?

It applies to pretty much any aspect of life, and to be honest i think its quite a sad thing.

Just thinking out loud.
I kind of agree, I use google and other forums to furthur my area of interest (computers) but some of the advice on computer threads here beggars belief, I'm sure people are trying to be helpful but if people posted 'I think ...' advice on mech tech, like 'I think you should pack your C.V. joints with Lard' they'd get laughed at.
but I see computer 'advice' just as 'helpful' posted in computery threads here in chat ...

I only post if i'd had experience of a problem and can offer advice, I don't post stuff I heard in a pub that might work.
 

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Bugsy_Malone 666 said:
i still read alot of books, books = knowledge, knowledge = power ;)
Since i got t`internet a couple of years ago i do read far less-i was thinking that just today...spooky.

I`ve had some excellent advice on here which would have cost me thousands of pounds if charged for....unfortunately i can only offer knowledge related to manual work in return or an unsubstantiated opinion on absolutely anything in Chat:D
 

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dogfood said:
Surely people who submit information or knowledge on the interwebby have the intention of spreading it?

OK,so it might be misinterpreted/reinterpreted but you can't blame the creator? :p

I think Google is a great tool.I have found a lot of stuff related to my interests like music through it.

Just cutting and pasting info from Google to give as "advice" to people is bad though. ;)
I agree, im not doubting that. But, as mentioned above, research and learning is more than just reading and copying something off the net.

Unfortunately that is what happens too much now, especially in schools.

The art of research and learning is quite rapidly getting lost.... You only have to ask any university admission tutor to realise that.

Adrian
 

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JAN said:
lol, your probably right, but the wider audiance increases the risk caused by these people.

Or the wider spread the false or incomplete information becomes, the more believable it becomes to the masses....'oh it must be true, loads of people have told me.'
This could be a good example.

And no I didn't Google it.I read most of the BBC news site everyday. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
elajf1 said:
I agree, im not doubting that. But, as mentioned above, research and learning is more than just reading and copying something off the net.

Unfortunately that is what happens too much now, especially in schools.

The art of research and learning is quite rapidly getting lost.... You only have to ask any university admission tutor to realise that.

Adrian
I agree with everything you have said.

I think the key is in the application of knowledge....not only just with the internet, but with largely automated devices and computers in general, theres a good expression used when describing complex technical programmes in engineering such as FEA etc:

'shit in equals shit out'

A little bit of knowledge i think, is a dangerous thing.

However having dissed the tinterweb, i often used it during my degree, and it really helped, but i was ALWAYS careful of which sources i used, and most of the information if found was useful was simplt made easier to find through the internet, i.e. digital IMECHE libraries etc.
 

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'shit in shit out'

Now ain't that true ! - Applies to a fair number that I teach, thats for sure.

Off to bed,

Adrian
 

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there's an article in new scientist a while back saying studies show that people are adapting to internet access an are actually not holding as much information in their memory as the internet is acting like a bolt on memory bank.
bad if you have a power cut and no one knows what to do next!!
 

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JAN said:
I was just sitting at my desk and thinking, pondering certain posts on VZi and wondering if they are a fair cross section of society. Has the internet de-valued expertise and intellectual property?

Its so much easier to stay sat on your arse and avoid having to really 'learn' knowledge and just ask, or google your way to an answer. i think thatoften the real knowledge is lost, and the people who really know what they are on about are being de-valued. If you are a person who trully knows their subject it is painfully obvious to see through the googled advice people give, but do the majority of people realise this?

It applies to pretty much any aspect of life, and to be honest i think its quite a sad thing.

Just thinking out loud.
I think there something in what you're saying.

But equally the net is a useful tool and plenty of folks still learn real stuff.

As you say, it's not hard to tell who knows what they're talking about from those who have googled an answer.

It's like the Autodidact in Sartreís Nausea... he has no critical faculties... if he was a modern net user he'd be the one believing the conspiracy theories.

:D
 
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