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I really don’t want to get into another 2 week debate about this penalty thing, if I was a betting man I would be straight down to William Hill to put my money on Massa for the championship.

So let’s not debate the unexplainable any more, is this turn around at Renault purely circumstantial or have they turned a corner in their development, do we think they will ‘front runners’ next year?
 

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WTF????? how can Massa get away with his collision with Bourdais and then get his points? Bourdais had the inside of the corner with nowhere else to go. Typical Fiat arse kissing again
Bourdais has a decent looking bird but...

...I would say that Massa was quite clearly ahead of him on the corner.


JAN said:
hamilton puts himself in stupid situations again.
I agree.

Maybe McLaren are playing a conservative game with championship points/expected rain/tyres/a safety car period. [DELETE AS APPLICABLE]
 

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So let's not debate the unexplainable any more, is this turn around at Renault purely circumstantial or have they turned a corner in their development, do we think they will 'front runners' next year?
There's no reason for them not to be-they've spent enough time at the top either as the factory team or for Williams so I think they'll be at least hoping to beat BMW next year.

Alonso seems to have matured a lot but IMHO he was probably a brilliant driver last year-he just seemed to get wrapped up in the politics at McLaren.

They probably wasted a good opportunity last year to exploit his potential.
 

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So let's not debate the unexplainable any more
this is a totally different situation though, whats unexplainable?

hamilton fucked it in the first corner, you could even see the flat spots in inboard footage. hes uber arragant and expects people to get out of his way, unlucky mr hamilton.

His reaction to the blue flags on the last lap really showed the difference in character between alonso and LH in my opinion.

Hamilton then pushed masa, masa lost control on the gravel and touched LH, he got a stop go for it, he took his stop go, pretty fair i think?
 

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My opinion, for what its worth is that decisions by the FIA have been 'unexplainable' during the later part of the season although diffrent types of incidents they have all left me scratching my head, if you dont agree thats fine and like i said i dont really want to get ino this anymore! People know my view on it and i know others! I'm far more interrested in Renault ATM lets hopw they can put 2 competitive cars out next year and that we have 6 evenly matched cars at the front.
 

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My opinion, for what its worth is that decisions by the FIA have been 'unexplainable' during the later part of the season although diffrent types of incidents they have all left me scratching my head, if you dont agree thats fine and like i said i dont really want to get ino this anymore! People know my view on it and i know others! I'm far more interrested in Renault ATM lets hopw they can put 2 competitive cars out next year and that we have 6 evenly matched cars at the front.
8....bmw sauber ;)

i know what your saying, any yeah some decissons have been a little odd....but although unfortunate that oce again penalties have helped decide a result, i dont think any can really be argued that heavily this time.
 

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8....bmw sauber ;)

i know what your saying, any yeah some decissons have been a little odd....but although unfortunate that oce again penalties have helped decide a result, i dont think any can really be argued that heavily this time.
Now BMW's havent made much progress towards the end of this season, maybe they have been concentrating their efforts on next years car so you could be right, i dont think so though :D it will be another couple of years yet
 

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Now BMW's havent made much progress towards the end of this season, maybe they have been concentrating their efforts on next years car so you could be right, i dont think so though :D it will be another couple of years yet
bmw switched to develpoing their 09 car very early on. i hope they will be quick, they clearly have a goo driver.

i cant remember there ever being so many closely matched talented drivers, its great, LH (although i hate to admit it hahaha), kubica, masa, kimi, alonso, SV maybe coming through?
 
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Same old dull slagging of the Brit then eh?

He's a racer, Massa lost control of his car and rather than use the brakes he used Hamilton's car. end of.

Wether Hamilton should have been racing for that particular piece of tarmac given his position in the Championship is another matter.

And nobody is talking about Torro Rosso, surely if we are talking about great changes in fortune, they are the team to talk about?
 

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Same old dull slagging of the Brit then eh?

He's a racer, Massa lost control of his car and rather than use the brakes he used Hamilton's car. end of.

Wether Hamilton should have been racing for that particular piece of tarmac given his position in the Championship is another matter.

And nobody is talking about Torro Rosso, surely if we are talking about great changes in fortune, they are the team to talk about?
;)
 
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not at all, his nationality is of little concern to me, but equally just because he happens to be of the same nationality as me doesnt mean im going to wank him off. i dont care where he was born, he let himself down in japan.
Equally, you do rather let your own argument down with the emotive twaddle about 'arrogance'.

As far as i see it, Hamilton is one of the most interesting and to an extent unpredictable racers to have emerged in F1 in recent years, very much like Massa in fact. Compared to dullards like Raikonen it's a breath of desperately needed fresh air for a 'sport' that has been in near terminal decline for anyone but the blindest Fiat fan.
 

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Equally, you do rather let your own argument down with the emotive twaddle about 'arrogance'.

As far as i see it, Hamilton is one of the most interesting and to an extent unpredictable racers to have emerged in F1 in recent years, very much like Massa in fact. Compared to dullards like Raikonen it's a breath of desperately needed fresh air for a 'sport' that has been in near terminal decline for anyone but the blindest Fiat fan.
Indeed, arrogance or just supreme self confidence???
 

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i do agree its a fine line, they also made a good point that a lot of the great drivers face a tough time in their early career as they develop their reputation for making moves stick, you almost have to take a couple of knocks before people get the fear when they see you in the mirrors.
 

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Same old dull slagging of the Brit then eh?

He's a racer, Massa lost control of his car and rather than use the brakes he used Hamilton's car. end of.

Wether Hamilton should have been racing for that particular piece of tarmac given his position in the Championship is another matter.

And nobody is talking about Torro Rosso, surely if we are talking about great changes in fortune, they are the team to talk about?
Hamilton, to me, is still a bit immature. He doesn't seem to know when to step on the loud pedal, and when to step on the brakes.

I was just thinking the same about TR, and Red Bull as well. TR have a couple of promising young drivers, and the RB car itself appears to be a pretty good design.

If they can keep it up next year, and mate the car to the right engine, good things could happen:D
 

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i do agree its a fine line, they also made a good point that a lot of the great drivers face a tough time in their early career as they develop their reputation for making moves stick, you almost have to take a couple of knocks before people get the fear when they see you in the mirrors.
Spot on:)
 
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