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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hate anything to do with fluid or seals.

This is on a stock 67 T1 by the way.

This is probably the first time i ever had anything to do with hub seals, and i think im not getting something.

The problem is, i dont think i yet fully understand how hub seals on these work, so this is abit of a learning experience for me.

I put together the hub seals, changed the gators at the same time (i HAVE done them before, despite my phobia of tranny fluid, and every time its been a horrible experience, but strangely enough this time it wasnt that horrible, i guess its because i was in a warm dry garage and not out on a wet street).

So, last night i got the hub seals done, im pretty sure i assembled them both correctly, and left the car on axle stands. Filled it with fresh tranny fluid and went home.

This morning i was thinking that i will just put the brake shoes and drums back on and that's it, but the right hub had a big puddle of tranny fluid under it! It was coming out of the oil thrower drain hole at the back.

I also noticed something that i didnt quiet get. On one side (the NON leaking side) the oil thrower was forced all the way to the retainer when i bolted it up, so it was tight.

On the leaking side, the oil thrower was reasonably loose.

I have a feeling there is just something im not understanding here. Either the tranny/rear axle has some kind of horrible defect/massive wear (but its a very low mileage car), or maybe i assembled something wrong. Because, now that i think about it, as it stands now, how is the inner spacer supposed to press the smaller O ring into the bearing? I assumed that that happens with pressure that the retainer puts on the oil thrower, but obviously not.

The only other thing i could think of is maybe that the rear hub seals dont seal properly unless the drums are fitted?

Like maybe pressure from the drums somehow does something?

I did notice the old ones started leaking as soon as i took the drums off, but i just assumed they leaked anyway.

So IS it normal for them to not seal properly until the drums are fitted? Does the drum press on the oil thrower which puts pressure on the spacer and seals against the small O ring?

Like i said, the fact that i dont know how the hub seals work dont help.

Could anyone please explain?
 

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I had similar problem with Mrs Zeds's 65 beetle. They both started leaking when I cleaned out the drain holes. I got the kit and replaced them and they still leaked. I got another 2 pairs of kits (one for when she failed) and Mrs Zed fitted them herself, following the Haynes manual, wile I looked on and scoffed. That was a year ago and they still don't leak. Mrs Zed has mathematical/mechanical dislexia so I can only conclude that it's more straightforward than it looks. I suspect I had the large o-ring in the wrong place - think it has to be stretched over the boss part (it was a year ago!).

Drums on or off shouldn't make a difference or you wouldn't be able to work on the brakes.
 

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This is how to fit rear hub seals:-



Notes:-

1. When fitting the main oil seal, smear the inside of the oil seal with grease to prevent the seal from being burnt out before the gearbox oil gets there.

2. Also make sure that the shim that goes against the wheel bearing isn't sharp in any way !!

3. Wheel bearing cover bolts torque 43 lb ft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
So, i assume the brake drum DOES have to be present?

In that diagram, part 10 and 7 make the inner seal against the bearing, sealing with O ring 9, right?

When the drum is on, this surface circled in red:

...Presses against the Oil Thrower disk (13 which presses the spacer (10) into the O ring?

But without the drum on, there is nothing pressing against part 13, which means that part 10 has no pressure on it, it is free to slide about on the shaft a few mm, so with no pressure on the inner seal, it leaks through the tolerance between 10 and 4? Then it gets to 14 and out of the drain hole?

At least thats what it looks like?

Im still abit confused.

The instructions Phade posted say to tighten the hub nuts asap. I assume thats because of the problem i found?
 

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Part 13 is the oil slinger washer. It doesn't matter too much wether it moves or not, but the most important thing to check is that the shim (part 7) is not sharp in any way !!!

If the shim is sharp, then it will rip the small O ring to bits, rendering it useless !! Also read note 1 about smearing the inner part of the O ring with grease before fitting it.

The bolts I referred to is not the axle shaft nut (217 lb ft), but the four bearing cover bolts (43 lb ft).

The diagram is actually Moby5153's diagram and his own instructions in that diagram.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So, i still dont get it, my hub seals are assembled correctly, the shim is not sharp (well, its as it came out of the packet, i didnt notice anything sharp about it).

But now both hub seals leak.

It MUST be that the hub seals need pressure from the drums in order to seal? I cant see any other possible way for this to work.

Well, i guess i got nothing to lose, ill go fit the drums and see what happens.
 

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The best rear hub oil seal kit to get is the most expensive one from Cool Air VW, which includes the spacer.
 

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Tech Guru/Mr VZi '06
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So, i assume the brake drum DOES have to be present?

In that diagram, part 10 and 7 make the inner seal against the bearing, sealing with O ring 9, right?

When the drum is on, this surface circled in red presses against the Oil Thrower disk (13 which presses the spacer (10) into the O ring?

But without the drum on, there is nothing pressing against part 13, which means that part 10 has no pressure on it, it is free to slide about on the shaft a few mm, so with no pressure on the inner seal, it leaks through the tolerance between 10 and 4? Then it gets to 14 and out of the drain hole?

At least thats what it looks like?

Im still abit confused.

The instructions Phade posted say to tighten the hub nuts asap. I assume thats because of the problem i found?
That's ^^ correct, and so is my diagram.
If you make sure the drain hole is clear and then fit the drum you will probably stop the leak, after allowing for what is in there to escape. An aerosol of brake cleaner or WD40 squirted up the drain hole may speed things up. Poor quality seal kits don't help.
 

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Poor quality seal kits don't help.
One of the hub seals on my '63 Ghia has sprung a leak, its only done 600 miles since getting back on the road in May '08 after a 25+ year lay-up and total resto......and am not surprised thay have begun leaking as we used a nasty hub seal kit from GSF.
Status VW do a kit containing all-German seals and Barclay assured me they do not leak when I bought a pair of the kits at Stanford Hall from him.
Time will tell if that claim is up to the mark (at £20+:eek: for each side they had better bloomin work) as the car hasn't yet been fixed....

;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ahhhh...ok, thanks Moby, all makes sense now.

You learn something new every day i guess. Left it standing there on its wheels, will see if anything has leaked or not tomorrow.
 

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I just joined this forum hopping to find info on were to get a oil slinger for my dune buggy and ran accross this posting.You seem to be missing the propper picture of the propper oil slinger.I'm attaching a picture of the one I have..I need 1 more.The early VWs all leaked gear lube into the brake drum.VW could not fix the problem so they came up with a work around.The oil slinger catches the gear lube and throws it out of a hole in the brake drum thru a tube on the slinger as the wheel spins.As I said I have 1 on my VW meyers dune buggy..and that side is always dry..the other side I have to clean from time to time.If I put the slinger on the other side then that side stays dry.The picture will explain it all.You can see in the picture gear lube stains in the slinger but notice the drum is dry.Any one know where I can get 1 ?
Thanks
Posttal AKA Ralph
Cleveland,Ohio
 

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Tech Guru/Mr VZi '06
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Heres another picture of the slinger..#14..they call it a deflector.
Posttal AKA Ralph
Welcome to the forum. :)
The deflector part number was 111 501 631 if that's any help.
There was no particular problem with the sealing system used on earlier vehicles, all the sealing parts are the same as on later swing axle cars, as shown in the picture earlier in this thread.
 

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I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert on VW's but I am a 50 yr old Master Mechanic for the U.S.P.S. and all around car guy.But as far as VW's go I've always passed them up in favor of muscle cars..keep in mind that I'm in the U.S. where Chevy and Ford were Kings. I'v owned a few dune buggys though..I love them..and I'v worked at a lot of independent shops that serviced "Bugs" back in the day.It seems the 75% leaked at the axle seal.So I would assume that there was a problem that required Volkswagon to redesign the deflector and drum to "Sling" the gear lube out.Lets face it they never would have designed that part and produced it if it weren't needed.
Here in the stated that part is rare..I'v got a friend that owns a shop servicing nothing but Volkswagon products ,hes been doing it since we were in out teens..and he said he hasn't been able to get them locally in years.Are they available in the UK ? ?
Thanks
Posttal AKA Ralph
P.S...check out my buggy and other toys..there on my photobucket page at http://s760.photobucket.com/albums/xx245/posttal/
 
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