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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am building a stock looking 1776 cc engine for my 1303.

Any comments suggestions and specially experience with a similar setup, on the specks below, are most appreciated?

What i want is a civilized easy driven engine that pulls from low down.
Of course I want as much power as I can get, but not on the great expense of low down power and torque.
Going from 1300 to 1776 will naturally give a great deal of what I want, but maybe there are more easy apples to pick?

I will use:

Cast AA pistons and cylinders.

AB 1300 engine case – AS41- With Hover mods.

Full flow oil pump / filter.

Stock crank, con – rods.

Stock TP heads, and do a little flow work on them

34pict carburetor – MAYBE a progressive Weber.......

Probably stock valve train with bolted rocker axles.
Depends on whats needed for the cam I am going to use.

CR 8 – 8.5

Stock looking exhaust with CSP High Flow tailpipes and either I will mess the internals up in the stock exhaust, or maybe buy the CSP stock looking one.

As I don’t want a screamer and as I rarely will see over 4000 rpm, I am a little I doubt about if I just should stick with the stock cam or go for a mild upgrade.
Have tried to order a CB 2280 cheater cam but the order were canceled because it is not available any more.
That leaves me with stock cam,
or maybe an Engel W90,
or maybe 1:25 rockers with stock cam is just what I need,
or if some of you folks have a better suggestion?

Recommendations to the rest of the setup is of course also most welcome.



Have been looking a little towards this setup CSP has posted, using a W90 cam, in conjunction with their High Flow tailpipes.
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Circle
 

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Stock ports
Stock size valves but with stainless exhaust valves is best for torque. Big ports mess up the low down pull of a small cc motor. 1st motor I did over 30 years ago was a 1776.
Stock heads
Euro race H grind cam. (unavailable now)
Twin 40 dells.
Coupled to an AT gear. box. Brilliant combo for low end grunt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks.

Usable and affordable AT gearboxes is hard to come by in my parts, has constantly my eyes out for one.
Not many 1600 cars sold over here.

For some reasons I would like to stick with a center mount carb.

About my plan to flow the heads a little. Do you think it is a bad idea for my setup?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I appreciate all inputs, and I know twin carbs is a better solution, and have also anticipated suggestions going that route, but I have my reasons for sticking to the center carb for now.

It is something about economy in the build as I have already used far - far to much money on the car, but it is also something about I like the “stock” look, and further more, I could maybe run into trouble with the MOT as we, over here, is not allowed to modify heavenly on the engine from stock!

Some people over here actually have two engines. One they put in for the mot and the one they usually use....
 

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I used to have a 1776 in my beetle. Stock heads, mildly ported, 110 cam, 1.25 rockers on bolt up shafts, merged header and twin 40 weber idf. It was my daily driver and ran great. Then I needed some money quick so I sold the carbs and fitted a solex 34. I rejetted to suit. I made sure the preheater pipe was clear.
To be honest, it still ran great with plenty of power.

Then I fitted a 1.4 tdi engine......
 

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I am building a stock looking 1776 cc engine for my 1303.

Any comments suggestions and specially experience with a similar setup, on the specks below, are most appreciated?

What i want is a civilized easy driven engine that pulls from low down.
Of course I want as much power as I can get, but not on the great expense of low down power and torque.
Going from 1300 to 1776 will naturally give a great deal of what I want, but maybe there are more easy apples to pick?

I will use:

Cast AA pistons and cylinders.

AB 1300 engine case – AS41- With Hover mods.

Full flow oil pump / filter.

Stock crank, con – rods.

Stock TP heads, and do a little flow work on them

34pict carburetor – MAYBE a progressive Weber.......

Probably stock valve train with bolted rocker axles.
Depends on whats needed for the cam I am going to use.

CR 8 – 8.5

Stock looking exhaust with CSP High Flow tailpipes and either I will mess the internals up in the stock exhaust, or maybe buy the CSP stock looking one.

As I don’t want a screamer and as I rarely will see over 4000 rpm, I am a little I doubt about if I just should stick with the stock cam or go for a mild upgrade.
Have tried to order a CB 2280 cheater cam but the order were canceled because it is not available any more.
That leaves me with stock cam,
or maybe an Engel W90,
or maybe 1:25 rockers with stock cam is just what I need,
or if some of you folks have a better suggestion?

Recommendations to the rest of the setup is of course also most welcome.



Have been looking a little towards this setup CSP has posted, using a W90 cam, in conjunction with their High Flow tailpipes.
View attachment 303316
I ran a 1776 with stock 16 heads/valves all be it ported and polished diy. Stock crank but balanced, engle 110 cam. (If not wanting to rev the engine maybe stay stock or 100?)
Dual 34 itc....make sure are genuine webber not modern crap. I perfonally don't like the 32/36 progressive carb. I have one that's given me no end of trouble that want a rebuild if looking for one, but I'd go dual 34s any day.
Fit a equal length merged header and choose your back box wisely. A single pack will be torquier, easy breathers will let it rev harder but feel less torque low down in my experience. Best performance I got was from a CSP super competition...... or BAS as it was back then and much less money. Had access and weight drawbacks but sounded great and gave my best quarter mile time over and easy breather and restrictive single pack stainless.
I fitted external additional oil cooling full flow for peace of mind.
Ran this setup for a few years and was a lot of fun. HOWEVER.....for a small price Increse I wish I'd just gone upto 94mm over 90.5 and made it a 1915cc 😉. If your having machine work done why not maximise the bore if keeping stock stroke. Best of luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you all very much for sharing all your experiences and suggestions.
There is definitely a lot of food for thoughts.

The 1776 cc is chosen because of longevity and reliability, and because I don’t think an extra 176 cc is going over the fence regarding using an original 34pict carb, but on the other hand is an noticeable upgrade over a 1600, and significantly more than my current 1300 cc engine.
I have though considered to up the cc and have also had my eyes on a set of thick wall 92 mm 1835 cc. The machining is then 101 mm it the top and 97 in the engine case, same as for 1914 cc.

Regarding maybe using a progressive Weber.
If I go that route I will not buy a dedicated carb for the purpose.
I will just pull one of a Ford at the junkyard, adapt it to suit, with manual choker and self made manifold with a tube in a tube preheat etc.

Have been looking into the 37 – 39pict solution, but most of them is Chinese ones and cant find anyone had experience with them!
There are some German made ones, made on the basis on original Solex, but they are fairly expensive!

As I have written before, I has to keep the cost down, at least for the moment, as the money going into my 1303 project, happens faster than I can collect it....
I could just wait a year or more to get the car on the road and collect more funds, but would really like to drive it sometimes next summer, so the expense of a set of duals is out of the question.
Although a set of 34 mm ict Webers singles looks tempting.

About the cam.
I am a little surprised people gets away with using a W100 or 110 and a single carb.
Reading suggestions from proclaimed “experts” deems mostly this solution undriveable!
But maybe it is the same as in many other cases. One thing is theory and another thing is real life.
For cost and simplicity, the idea of getting a little more out of the standard cam with more lift rocker arms, is something I find tempting, and as I diffidently don’t want a race like engine, could probably turn out be the best solution for my needs.
Only thing is.
What is the pros and cons, for my needs, over a W90 or even a W100, now I am going to split the case anyway..!?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oversized pict carbs?

This guy has a few videos on the carbs, such as:


Thanks.
The guy has a lot of usable information on using the standard carb, and he also have made a newer video, where he uses a 39pict Chinese carb on a 2234 cc engine and gets 141 HP!



And yes I am going to balance everything in the engine.
Will balance the con-rods using both the VW recommended method and the one various others uses.
 

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I'm running a stock solex with 1.3 main and maxed out pump etc on a 2.0 CU.
Not finished the 3rd and final vid in this little series yet as keep making changes lol but seems to work OK but hardly a performance option 👍

Issued to race around with my mates in a 1776, they had a 16/41? Single dell setup and a 1300 stock setup but decent exhaust. On the flat there wasn't a huge difference in Acceleration...... yeah I know! The 13 was unreal!.... The bigger the cc the better it was up hills however and in Sheffield that counts.
For that reason I think a 1915 would be the approx difference between a 16 and a 1776, on top. I'd take that any day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Compromises – compromises - compromises! :unsure:
After listening to your folks and studying what else I could find.
I have decided upon thick wall 1835 cc and a W100 cam.
More on the subject and why, in my latest post in my build tread in Readers Rides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Milling the engine case for 1835 cc / 1914 cc.

97 mm gets extremely close to the cylinder studs.

My AB AS41 case has 10 mm studs.
Should I keep them or should I fit case savers and 8 mm studs??

As I sees it, the larger 12 X 1.5 mm treads for the case savers can be a problem with a 97 mm drilling in the case!

Measuring my other AS21 engine case, with case savers already installed, there will only be around 0.5 mm material left if it were milled up to accept 97 mm barrels!

Th AS 41 case with 10 mm studs are going to have around 1.5 mm material left between the studs holes and barrel bore, when it is opened up to 97 mm.

As it is we will only mill down as long as the barrel skirt goes and thereafter only a fraction larger than the 92 mm piston. It gives some more material between the studs and the bore in the case, for the deepest 10 - 15 mm part of the studs holes anyway.
 

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I would test the strength of all the case stud threads with double nuts on the studs. Use a torque wrench set a bit more than what the manual says. If all the threads are good then cut it for 1835 at the most. 1914 is only 79 cc more., hardly noticeable really.
Are you sure this case is worthy of spending money on cutting it for larger cylinders.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
As it is 1835 cc thick wall I will aim at, it is 97 mm in the case and 101 in the heads, same as 1914cc.

Have already checked the studs, with nearly twice the torque. All treads are fine.

Yes the case is fine with nearly no corrosion and no cracks to find.
Only thing is the lifter bores is to their max.
Think it is as good as it can get for a 50 year old engine case.
Have already got it linebored ,by someone else with the right tooling, who knows how.

My oldest son is a toolmaker, therefore the machine work is for free. 😁

But should I leave it with the 10 mm studs?

On the other hand. If money were no issue. I would just have bought a brand new alu. engine case.
 

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Check the measurements for standard wall 1776/1835. These cylinders will last along time and aren't a massive amount of money. The ones I used on my old motor where these with 10mm threads. It was fine for years. If this isn't a daily driver, and only a summer vehicle you might not do enough miles to get to the re do the top end stage for another 10 years.
 

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As it is 1835 cc thick wall I will aim at, it is 97 mm in the case and 101 in the heads, same as 1914cc.

Have already checked the studs, with nearly twice the torque. All treads are fine.

Yes the case is fine with nearly no corrosion and no cracks to find.
Only thing is the lifter bores is to their max.
Think it is as good as it can get for a 50 year old engine case.
Have already got it linebored ,by someone else with the right tooling, who knows how.

My oldest son is a toolmaker, therefore the machine work is for free. 😁

But should I leave it with the 10 mm studs?

On the other hand. If money were no issue. I would just have bought a brand new alu. engine case.
Imo!...

10mm headstuds directly into the case, without casesavers, and boring for 94 barrel size = no. It is very close and not worth the risk. Fit 8mm studs and case savers, and bore for the cylinders carefully. Case savers resist stud pullout FAR better than studs straight into the case.

Decide on everything now before you start machining/building, it's all in the combination. Changing one or two things mid way through can ruin a good known combo. So... finalise what you want in terms of bore, cam, induction, valve size, exhaust... etc... youve had a lot of good suggestions already.... but....to add to those.... think about the air filter/inlet into the induction and..

don't forget the ignition system!.

If you want decent, smooth idle, almost stock like with 1776cc... don't use the usual engle 100 or bigger, it will work, but it won't be smooth and will be hard to tune with a single carb.. with twin carbs, completely different...

I'd say... for a fairly low rpm, nice daily driver type deal, easy to maintain, reliable..

1835/1776
Stock heads/valves
Cheater cam by engle, cb, webcam
Csp or vintage speed stock style high flow exhaust
Single HD springs, retainers, etc.
Hi flow stock style inlet manifold
Bored out venturi solex 34 pict 3.
As much cylinder head work as you can do/afford.
Tight deck height. Approx 1mm
Decent Elephant feet adjusters, shimmed rocker shafts.
Full flow oil, 26mm pump.
Comp ratio between 8.5-9.0 to 1 depending on the cam.
If staying below 5000rpm, stock pushrods. Valve geometry
set correctly, and pushrod length adjusted if necessary.
Statically balance rods n pistons.
Dynamically balance rotating assembly.
Don't fit a small restrictive air filter. Modded stock style is nice.
Hoover oil modifications are good. Don't do the Hoover cam tunnel mod. 😮*
Decent ignition.. I.e. not cheap Chinese 009 or svda.
ALL the stock tinware and seals.
Deep sump, especially if you do longer journeys.

It will start nice, will warm up well because of the autochoke, should idle around 900-950, and once it gets going, will pull very nicely and have a good increase in torque over stock for hills, extra weight in the car etc.. also reasonable on fuel compared to twin 40s etc.. however twin Chinese 40s or kadrons would also work... I would consider changing to better pushrods if fitting those carb setups..

You WILL need to jet/time it differently to stock as it's not a stock engine!.. but that's true for ANY non stock motor.... consider some gauges to tune it yourself, or have it rolling roaded by someone you trust.

Rocket ship?! No... not the intention... fun to build and use?, good value? definate increase over stock? Something Stock looking, but different and personal to yourself? Imo..yes.

If you have a toolmaker in the family, that should help with a lot of the mods:)

Good luck!

* unless you're doing other external oil system cooling mods...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Case savers and 8 mm studs it will be then.

For the rest. Pretty much what I had in mind. Exept have also considered a W100 or even a W110, if I later down the line upgraded should decide to upgrade on the carburator.
But think to be on the safe side it should be a W90 with bolted rocker shafts and a little harder springs.

For the tuning. I have planed to get it on a roling road.
 
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