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Hi Al,

Use an aftermarket T1 header (Bugpack, etc) with J-Tubes and a tuckaway or SQP - whatever your preference. Cut and turn the flanges 90∞ for cylinders 1 & 4. If you are using the early aluminium WBX thermostat housing on cylinder 4 then you will need to cut & re-work the exhaust on 4 to clear the t/stat housing.

If you use the 2.1 DJ engine with oil cooler between the filter & case, then you will find the oil filter is close to the left J-Tube making filter changes tricky - there is a shorter filter available. Alternatively use a sandwich plate and a remote oil cooler.

Or you can get a bespoke one made from stainless steel - Mine should be finished this week... :D

Cheers

Moog
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Don't mind me asking Moog, what sorta price was the exhaust and what is it like?

Also the engine I'm looking at is a 2.1 DJ. I understand that the flywheel will have to be changed for a T4 flywheel and clutch etc. I also know about the body mods that need to be done, I think. Are the short filters any good or owuld a sandwich plate be a better solution. Chances are that I will buy the engine, so trying to get to grips with the basics first. Two Apple green GTs both running 2.1 Wasserboxers... That iwll be something to witness :D
 

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On my 1.9 I original used the standard headers bolted up to a twin pack. The rear valance was a bit crap to get it all to fit.



In the end like Moog say's I took a standard extractor header and reversed 1/4's manifold.

I had to use a T4 flywheel.
You will need to do a little clearance work where the side trays are.

I originally had the rad behind the back seat and then ran s/steel flexy pipes up the floorpan. I used to do frequent journeys between essex and manchester without too much bother. The only problem was that the rad is the highest point in the system so any air locks would be there.

In the end I gave up and put the rad in the front.
By then the heads were giving me grief and popping head gaskets.

TBH my current project is going to be using a Subaru 2.2 legacy.
The old WBX engine was great for torque but sucked on hp. You can get the same HP from an aircooled without too much bother.

It's a nice fit and still VW it that really matters but never again for me :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Was looking into a front mounted radiator in the spare wheel well and the doing away iwth said spare wheel!

I also read about the side trays having to be removed and am pretty happy with doing that.

With regards to the engine, it is an easyish upgrade, much less hassle that a Type 4 and much less costly.

I am looking for drivability and economy more than all out performance, though I understand that more parts are becoming available should I want a little more performance.

I also have read that I will need a Type 4 clutch etc. Is there any issues with the flywheel and a 1303s gearbox?

Thanks for the input.
Al
 

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+ Points.

1. I used to get 40 mpg on the long trips.
2. I fitted a golf heater under the rear seat that warmed the car in 1 minute and no more misty windows. (2 Speed setting, whhoooo).
3. It used to run round the clock to about 110 mph. You could get 3 mates in the car, drive up a hill and the front wheels would still take off :D
4. Fit's in nice without adapters or extra wiring and minimal cutting.
5. If you stick to the carb 1.9 the existing fuel feeds work a treat.
6. Older design so no cam belts, ecu's etc.
7. Many servicable parts are the same or similar to the air cooled cousins and are cheap and available.

- Points.

1. 10 years ago this was the best Water cooled option but a lot has changed since then. Although VW sorted out all the problems with the earlier air cooled engines like fitted an oil filter, proper main bearings, better seals and no oil leaks, the engine is still a pain to maintain compared to modern equivalents.
2. Don't get me started on head gaskets, you don't want to go there.
3. Having gone to all the trouble fitting a rad and cooling system why would you choose 85-100 hp when you can have 130-300 hp?

I guess it's horse for courses.

That reminds me, the old wbx engine's still in my dad's garage waiting for rebuild that's probably never coming.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Iain, thanks again for the reply. The main reason for going with the WCVW is budget. I don't have a lot of money to spend on adaptor plates etc to fit a Subaru. I also like the idea of at least keeping it VW. The maintenance side of things doesn't phase me as I have done most of the basics on my bug before. Like you say, the torque is good - mainly what I want and the MPG is very attractive and the idea of the car is to be an easy to drive sleeper, with enough power to smoke the odd knob is a corsa.

You mention the head gaskets being an arse. Obviously they go with general wear and through poor maintenance. Is there any other reason for them to go? My base engine will be the 2.1 with digifant 1. I may look to upgrading this with a megasquirt kit if the funds allow at a later point in time.

Thanks again
Al
 

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Hi Al,

As i think Iain found, cooling system is important - WBX's suffer if they get excessively hot or you can't bleed the air out of the system - gaskets pop!

You'll have some teething troubles with the cooling system - I've just blown two header tanks in two weeks - first i thought it was a faulty tank, but now the second one has gone i'm putting it down to a dodgy pressure cap. My Rad is quite low, and header tank nice & high, so not had any trouble with bleeding air out. Temps have always stayed within limits, even when it went pop. This evening i've changed the tank again and fitted a new Golf Cap but with slightly lower pressure T25 cap internals, so here's hoping...

On my 2.1 i dumped the original oil cooler, and ran a Mocal sandwich plate with 80∞c oil-stat to a front mounted cooler from CSP - this keeps the oil temp much lower. Oil was always 10∞c hotter than the water, but now it doesn't go over 90*∞c. Plus the oilstat/sandwich plate is thinner than the original cooler so i can now get the oil filter off/on easier past the left J-Pipe.

Flywheel - i used a lightened 215mm T4 with 215mm T2/T4 clutch. Machine out the centre and press in the spigot bearing to support the clutch input shaft. No other issues here. Use new Genuine WBX bolts!

Use a VR6 thermostat - same fitment but opens at 80∞C rather than the WBX 87∞C.

I had to change the starter for an uprated item to crank over the 10.5 Compression 2.1 DJ engine a little faster. It may just have been that my original starter was past it anyway.

New stainless exhaust is just the silencer section - still using the large bore bugpack header. (Wrap at least part of it in exhaust wrap as you have the filter & coolant pipes close by.) The new silencer is a bespoke hidden stainless system with two 1 7/8" tailpipes through the stock cutouts - nice & discreet. Will post some pics when done.

Another plus (over an aircooled anyway) is that it is so quiet. Water jacket quietens the combustion noise, and then there's the hydraulic tappets so no tappety noises.

As Iain says, heating is good - i have a T25 auxilliary heater (under rear seat in some T25's, & almost identical to Mk2 Polo) - 3 speed fan & blows down heater channels to keep you nice & toasty. Left heater lever controls the valve in the heater system.

With the Emereld Injection and dual 40mm throttle bodies it makes 130bhp. Goes nicely off the clock :D

Moog
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok! Next question. Radiators...
Choices and set ups, H2o is a new thing to me in cars! I've only ever driven one water cooled before and it was a pug 306!

Which radiator? And other than plumbing the feed and return what do i need to fit? My dad is reading too, but I am limited for resources in deepest Wales :crazy:
 

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I used a golf rad and expansion tank and a variety of cooling pipes.

There are many ways of running pipes up the car to the front rad.
Some people use copper pipes, others flexi pipes whereas I used flexi stainless steel tubing. This was because it could be bent into shape easily and due to the surface area helped cooling.

I have even seen metal box sections used to increase ground clearance.

Some run pipes inside the centre tunnel and out through the front bulk head.

Some Run them through the heater channels.

IMO running metal pipes mounted under the car is the right thing to do as you get free air cooling both ways in addition to your rad.

Mine was a 1302s so getting the rad fitted with no recirculation problems was tricky. If yours is a beam bug like my current one then things should be a litte easier.

There are plenty of forums and sites that give ideas-

http://members4.clubphoto.com/john278638/3766338/guest.phtml
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewforum.php?fid=59
http://shoptalkforums.com/index.php

Although most talk about Subaru conversions the plumbing help is still useful.

Have fun!

Iain.
 

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Type IV isn't that expensive you know...

LA Performance do a setup that uses a 30HP fan shroud and includes all the bits you need for cooling... comes in at about £300 (cost up rad and fabrication work.....)

Or you can adapt beetle cooling to cool a Type IV engine..

Stronger engine, OK so parts cost more than Type 1, but they last longer, they are stronger, you've got a decent case, all the plus points of a Wasserboxer really without the complication.... and less fabrication work is needed.

RNJ Motorsport (Judgie on here) and LA Performance both do exhausts for them for Type IV into Type 1 applications...

Less weight to them too... esp without all that fluid in the system.

Just food for thought, I like wassers, when they work, but I've chosen to loose my wasser in my wedge and go subaru power for a number of reasons...

I just don't see the use for a water cooled engine in an aircooled vehicle, especially when a Type IV engine is so good and can be done at a relativly low cost, certainly cheaper than building a performance type 1 properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The only thing about a Type IV is that the £300 for the setup isn't the best one, and I want this to be a relaible daily. Also most of the problems with the Type 1 and Type IV cases, as I understand from reading, were fixed in the Wasserboxer. Exhausts for a Type IV into a Type 1 from CSP cost about £350 which is well out of my budget for an exhaust!

Also the mention of not putting water cooled into an air cooled; Weren't some wedgies air cooled? AND aren't Subaru's water cooled too. Not trying to be rude, just can't really see where you are coming from with that.

I understand that Type IVs are cheaper than a performance type 1 engine would be, but the WBX seems like a cheaper option that that.

Al
 

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It'd be reliable, there's lots of Type IV bugs with far more "tricks" that a stock say... 1800 type IV with beetle style cooling that are used daily.....I can't see issues there...

The Type IV cases didn't really have many problems to speak of, they have full flow, a proper filter, same as a wasser case.

I've got an aircooled wedge, and that's not gonna be made a water cooled... cos adding pipes, rads, heater matrix etc is a balls ache...

The one I've converted is a manual wasserboxer ;), if it was aircooled, I'd have gone LPG and made a better Type IV for it :D, just like I'm gonna do with the camper, where I'm coming from is a vehicle that wasn't designed or engineered to have a rad, heater matrix etc, is always gonna be a balls ache to get one in there... the wedge was designed to use water cooled (diesels, then wasserboxers) from day one, so the "design" was always incorporating rads, matrixes etc...

The wasserboxer conversion in a bug has a lot of expenses to tally up, cost of materials (please don't use any copper in an ali based engine!), brackets and mounts for engine support, rads, coolant hose routing, bodywork

bleeding the cooling system has to be provided for, esp important with a wasserboxer.

Just a few thoughts and ideas, that's all ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just trying to get my head around parts that I'm gonna need, if anyone has any additions/modifications to this list, please do let me know.

Engine :rolleyes:
Petrol tank with FI return (any ideas where you can get the stock mexi tanks? Or is it better to modify a new tank?)
Type 4 clutch
215mm Flywheel
Coolant tubes - flexible and solid stainless steel
Radiator
VR6 Thermostat
Electric fan/s for radiator
Thermo switch for rad fans
External oil cooler
Thermo switch for oil cooler
Oil lines to cooler
Sandwich plate
Intermediate gearbox brace/ Kafer cup brace
Gagues - water temp, oil temp
Header and exhaust
2x Modified J-tubes
Exhaust wrap
Auxilairy Heater
Front calipers to finish my disk setup on the front

Anything I've missed or not thought about? Thanks for everyone's advice so far

Al
 

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al_kaholik said:
Just trying to get my head around parts that I'm gonna need, if anyone has any additions/modifications to this list, please do let me know.

Engine :rolleyes:
Petrol tank with FI return (any ideas where you can get the stock mexi tanks? Or is it better to modify a new tank?)
Type 4 clutch
215mm Flywheel
Coolant tubes - flexible and solid stainless steel
Radiator
VR6 Thermostat
Electric fan/s for radiator
Thermo switch for rad fans
External oil cooler
Thermo switch for oil cooler
Oil lines to cooler
Sandwich plate
Intermediate gearbox brace/ Kafer cup brace
Gagues - water temp, oil temp
Header and exhaust
2x Modified J-tubes
Exhaust wrap
Auxilairy Heater
Front calipers to finish my disk setup on the front

Anything I've missed or not thought about? Thanks for everyone's advice so far

Al
New Pants
Large bag of cash :D
 

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If your going FI then you need to perhaps upgrade your fuel line.
Best to use a swell pot also.

Fit an electric pump below the tank.
Run this to a t piece.
Connect one pipe to the fuel rail.
Connect the other to the swell pot bottom feed.
Run the fuel return to the middle swell pot feed.
Run the top overflow swell pot feed to a tank return line.

This should solve any fuel starvation problems and reduce the return fuel quantity.

Couple of ideas for return lines.

Drill & tap return plug in tank.
Drill & tap return in fuel filler pipe.

Try to make sure that any return does not unduly airate the fuel.
 
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